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Author Topic:   Spider-Man or Superman
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 70 (569842)
07-23-2010 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
07-23-2010 5:57 PM


Spider-man. This is part of a general trend of Marvel being better than DC.
Make Mine Marvel!

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 8 of 70 (569865)
07-24-2010 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Granny Magda
07-24-2010 9:05 AM


When was the last time you actually cracked open a brand new comic book
I'm working my way through "Civil War" right now. For what it's worth DC's "Kingdom Come" was probably the most Marvel-like of DC storylines, and I'll set it against "House of M" or "Civil War" (so far) any day.
You show me something from the DC side that even approaches Joss Whedon's run on "Astonishing X-Men" and then maybe we can have a discussion about it.

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 Message 6 by Granny Magda, posted 07-24-2010 9:05 AM Granny Magda has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 70 (569912)
07-24-2010 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Granny Magda
07-24-2010 12:01 PM


We're on Captain America's side. Obviously Because he's Captain America. Plus, Stark comes across as a massive douchebag throughout.
Really? I think Stark makes some pretty reasonable points throughout. I think it's a bit much to ask a society to just trust unaccountable individuals with secret identities and access to incredible power - including weapons - to use those powers in a way that's best for everybody. We certainly don't have that kind of trust in our military or in our civil police, but we're talking about people in suits that give them the destructive power of entire armies, people with powers that can alter reality itself. And it's generally understood that anonymous vigilantism is not a positive force for a civilization.
I'm obviously not saying the solution as presented in Civil War was the right one, but certainly a program of voluntary superhero registration and training would be a necessary part of a society of superhumans and Homo superior And there has to be some kind of regulation of superpowers; we regulate firearms, after all.
Again, I haven't read Whedon's X-Men, but if you recommend it, I'll hunt it down.
It's quite fabulous, as you might expect. Try to ignore that it informed the godawful third X-Men movie.
We're a bunch of very lucky fanboys.
I'm really very new to this fandom, despite being fairly familiar with superheroes by virtue of osmosis - there's a lot of overlap with the comics fandom in the other nerd circles I'm a part of. This summer I've been trying to expose myself to the latest and greatest of Marvel storylines, as well as some of the good stuff from the recent past.
When that's done I'll see about getting to the DC storylines you've mentioned.

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 Message 10 by Granny Magda, posted 07-24-2010 12:01 PM Granny Magda has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 70 (569929)
07-24-2010 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by subbie
07-24-2010 6:02 PM


Except for the fact that they have been for decades.
I don't really think that's the case. Seems like there are countless examples of costumed vigilantes violating that trust. And the speed with which the populace embraced Superhero Registration following the tragedy at Stamford indicates that the public had long felt that superheroes had not lived up to their end of the bargain.
And moreover - what choice were the people ever given? Costumed vigilantism was basically rammed down their throats. Few street-level superheroes ever asked anybody if they could engage on a frequently-violent campaign to "clean up the streets." Few members of the public were ever given the opportunity to weigh the supposed advantages of costumed vigilantism against the likelihood of escalation of conflict by the forces of criminality.
But in the world of comics, it's been a net positive by any measure you'd care to name.
Is it? The first comic superhero The Clock was largely little more than a masked detective who solved petty crimes and fought thugs and organized crime types. By the time we get to House of M, even the heroes themselves are radically reshaping reality in ways highly detrimental to the nonpowered populace. That's after about 8 decades of slow escalation in terms of the danger of the villains, their organization, and the destructive power they're able to wreak.
I think there's a pretty substantial case to be made that denizens of the World of Comics are substantially worse off as a result of 8 decades of costumed "heroics."
By regulating superpowers, you are restricting the very abilities that make superheros who they are.
Don't you think that, for someone who has Olympic-caliber talent at target shooting, the operation of firearms is a part of who they are? Don't you think someone like an attorney or a policeman, who dedicates themselves to the ideals of justice (to the extent that those figures do), what they do is part of what makes them who they are?
A heavyweight boxer may define who he is by the fact that he's good at punching people, but that doesn't mean we let him punch anyone he likes.
You know I have an anti-authoritarian streak as wide as the day is long. I don't relish the thought of government intrusion and control over the lives of private citizens. But superheroes themselves are another kind of authority, an elite, unelected fraternity unaccountable to those most affected by their decisions. There must be some middle ground between the unchecked exercise of their power and the dystopian police society the Superhero Registration Act ultimately devolves into.
It would be like requiring a boxer or an MMA fighter to register themselves before they be allowed to go in public.
But we do have registration and regulation of both boxing and Mixed Martial Arts competitions and competitors.

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