Ground Zero Mosque - Tolerance, Racism or Comedy?

If it's not a sarcasm-based joke, it's pretty good work for a bigot. And who said bigots can't be funny? Oh, I know who...Anyway, I think it's a dig at intolerance, it seems too well thought out and humorous to be actual hate. It's definitely at the expense of Muslims though, just as every other joke is at the expense of someone or some group. But that's where the funny lies.I mean c'mon, "You Mecca Me So Hot"...? That's comedy gold. So is "Turban Cowboy."In fact, even if it's based on hate, it's funny nonetheless.The best comedy comes from some truth. SNL did a sketch after the towers got hit about local businesses that had "Osama Bin Laden" sounding names feeling the financial stress after 9/11. This one strikes me as having a similar tone.I forget the names of the businesses that SNL came up with but they were funny.And besides, who wants total tolerance? Nothing would ever be funny then, there would be no funny stereotypes or mocking a group for the dumb shit they do.Look, China Town smells like shit because the "Chinese people" there sell fish on the sidewalk. And I say "chinese" 'cause they all look chinese. Solly, that's just what it is.Sometimes a gay guys acts silly wearing combat boots and daisy dukes, that shit is hilarious, and real. Just head to The Village or Santa Monica Blvd in the west coast. SSSSSssssorry, that's just what it is.If tolerance means having to avoid this sort of humor, or the one in the e-mail, then fuck it, I'll enjoy intolerance. Sounds like more fun.Does it make any worthwhile points? I think the point is that it's funny to deliberately offend people.- Oni

Shove it, limey. - Oni

It's the perfect storm! Either way, I didn't hear no bell. Fights still on as far as I'm concerned. Its all for F,un A,nd G,ames anyway. - Oni

Crossed what line? From nice to mean?If the audience laughed though, they did their job. Kick their ass if you like, but now you crossed a line. What line? All you're scenario tells me is that the person writing material like that, although they may find it funny, is a dick in my opinion.People are dicks sometimes, what are you gonna do?What I mean when I say "there is no line" is that there is no topic that one couldn't try to make funny. I've heard funny jokes about pretty much every subject - AIDS, rape, pedophilia, cancer, handicaps, dead troops, genocide (and a host of others). The only thing is, you risk coming off like a completely insensitive asshole if it doesn't work, but it can work.So as long as someone is trying to be funny, which is what "doing comedy" is, I don't consider any subject off limits. There is no line that I draw. Nothing that you wrote seemed like comedy to me, it was just someone being an asshole.- Oni

Whenever you like. I think people are dicks about 95% of the time. There is no limit, no minimum, no test, really; it's up to you when you feel someone is being a dick. But there is no universal guage that we will all agree on that's for sure.- Oni

What a great line! I hope you're ok though, sounds like a fucked up situation to be in. I think this humorous lady has since started driving limos at funerals.I was at a friend's apt in NY when he got the news that his father had passed away; we were headed with a few other comics to theUniversity of Conn. for a show.We all stood there in silence for a minute, then out of nowhere my friend says, "Leave it to my dad to ruin my plans to get some college pussy," and we all laughed hysterically and changed the mood of the situation.What someone will find funny is completely subjective.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

What's the insentive to being good?Most of the time, it's when I know I'm doing something bad that there is usually an insentive.- Oni

No it is not, when used properly. You are not using it the way it is meant to be used. I explained that when I or a comic in general, uses the phrase "there is no line," he's talking about a topic. There is no subject or topic that is too taboo not to joke about - there is no line.That's how it's meant. Have you ever watched Kathy Griffen on stage? Yes, torture is wrong. Putting it on stage to glorify it is even worse. Murder is also a line, we have laws for it too.But none of that is comedy, so I don't see your point. We'd have to see the example of it before making a judgment on it.I get what you're trying to say but you have to recognize the fact that you are using the term wrong. "There is no line" is not meant to justify torture or murder on stage if someone or a group happens to find sick shit like that funny. It's just meant to reflect one's opinion on different subjects and topics and remove their taboo label.Don't go so overboard with it. But seriously though, Kathy Griffen is legal torture on TV.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

It's decided by the performer. An audience can find it funny but that doesn't matter. You can laugh at tragedy, that doesn't change the tragic play or dramatic movie to a comedy all of a sudden. Maybe the person is stupid or retarded and laugh at anything, does that make everything comedy?And this is also by consensus too. Just 'cause one sick fuck thinks torture or murder are forms of comedy, that doesn't make them so. When it is bullying, duh? lolIt's done the same way as we do it at work, or in a bar, or where ever people are social. Things stop being funny when people stop laughing.But you are confusing what is considered "in the genre of comedy" and what is considered "funny." One doesn't define the other. Well sorry "others" but murder and/or torture just aren't a popular form of comedy right now. They can want it to be comedy all they want, but if it isn't what is normally performed as comedy, it isn't comedy.You can want, or even believe wholeheartedly, that The Godfather is a comedy, but why should that change it? The same one's we all apply. But I don't say there is no line as in literally anything goes, I've explained how I use it. But there literally is no line as to what can be funny. And what is considered "in the genre of comedy" is decided by the piece, or the words used, or the actions taken - as it would be in any other situation. Not yet...- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

I've seen them many times, but I don't remember the scene in any of those movies where someone actually, for really, no bullshit gets tortured or murdered.- Oni

I have explained how I'm using the "there is no line" mantra, it does not in anyway leave a window open for torture and murder to sneak in under the guise of comedy.YOU are forcing it in with YOUR take on what it means. Wasn't torture and capital punishment once done in public to the amusement of a crowd? I'd say revert back to the dark ages, back to when the Bible was taken literally - that seems to breed insanity. Against their will? That is not comedy, that is rape, we've already defined it and created laws to punish those who commit it. Seriously Straggler this seems rather comical in it's own right. I've clearly stated in the last post that finding something funny doesn't make it comedy. You could just be a sick fuck, or retarded and find everything funny, or just plain stupid and laugh at tragedy. Just because a crowd laughs doesn't make what is being done "comedy." Do I see the difference? Yes of course...and did you see how easy it was to tell the difference between comedy and bullying? The people you're performing to, or in the real world, the people you are telling your joke to. It's no different than any other situation. I think you're making it purposely harder than it really is.I think you'll find we can all agree on what is considered "in the genre of comedy" and what is not. The difference of course is in what individual people find FUNNY, and that is where you're getting stuck. What someone finds funny doesn't automatically make it comedy, like I said, you could find The Godfather hilarious but that doesn't make The Godfather a comedy.Everyone will find different things funny, but we can all agree on what is in the genre of comedy and what is, say, a drama or a thriller or a suspense or a horror. We've already done that. So even if you publicly murder someone to the rip-roaring laughter of a crowd, doesn't automatically make what you're doing "comedy" - it is murder - and I don't think you'll find anyone that will disagree. And even if you do, say, find one or two people that think it's a comedy, if the consensus amoung the rest of society is that it is not, then the opinion of one or two people doesn't mean shit.- Oni

Suspiciously... I'd say, yes. But the "moral consideration" part is leaving me a bit uneasy with my reply. If the vast majority of people can find something funny that was intended as comedy, what kind of moral considerations weren't already taking into account before laughing? Because someone will always complain about something...no matter what it may be - people have turned into quite the cunt these days when it comes to humor.Also, there really is no debate IN COMEDY about what comedy is, the debate is had outside when non-experienced people without a broad sense of humor or knowledge in the field think they can weigh in on an issue - like the twat giving her opinion about the O&A bit. But you would NEVER catch comics doing that shit, arguing about the finer points of what bullying is and isn't - we just know. And those who don't know get weeded out - where's Andrew Dice Clay these days? Yup. Some people like to eat pears and I can't fucking stand them. We're all different I guess. I never thought they were, I think we all share the same ability, for the most part, to signal out comedy and bullying - there wouldn't exist a law against bullying if we couldn't. There will be some grey areas, but that is expected. I don't know where I said different or lead you to think I was of a different opinion.The issue comes in when we seek retribution, this is where I take issue. This is when it can get ugly in the discussion, as you've seen here in the past. But that is expected too.- Oni

It took me a minute but I got it. Quite the faux pas I think.- Oni

Niceee. I think these are usually the lines draw by the comics I know too. Never anything that rough, that place sounds like it needs a bouncer by the name of, Dalton (anyone catch the reference?) It does sound like those were fun times though.I do perform at a few rough rooms, out of the way bars mainly, but never with a fence separating me. The worse was early on when I started, a place in Ft. Myers, Florida, realllly out of the way from anything - one of those places were nothing is around for miles except that bar and one street light. But I was hungry and would take anything.Anyway, about halfway into my set, which was about 7 minutes in, a giant redneck, mullet wearing, 3 tooth'd motherfucker stands up, points at my face (and the audience wasn't far from the stage so the tip of his finger was about 5' away from me) and says, "I don't like you, man. You suck something bad, and I think everyone here thinks you suck too. Ima let you finish, but just know that you ain't that good."So I paused for a few, looked at the rest of the crowd and said, "Well, I guess we've heard from the town's English professor, anyone else want to chime in and tell me how good I ain't?" And the place errupted in laughter. The best part was the "professor" didn't get it, he just stood there wondering why everyone was laughing. He never said anything else but I truly was scared for the rest of the set. Me and the other comics didn't stay long after the show either.I've heard some real horror stories about the road.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

Well you can't expect everyone to agree. But for the most part, it's not an everyday situation. Something said is always gonna bother somebody, and in every case, there is a group defending the person/s being accused. This is inevitable. I'm against "hate" laws for the fact that it doesn't protect anyone group anymore than just calling it a crime does. It is used as a tool by politicians and community leaders to circumvent having to actually deal with the issues causing the tention. And, because in some cases, labeling it "hate" actually increases the potential for more violence.But not because it mislabels bullying. Agreed. I did no such thing, you can retrace my argument in that thread. My point was/is, protest all you want, call it what ever your subjective interpretation tells you it is, but don't expect your reaction to have the repercussion that only you desire when there are people disagreeing with you.This is when you as a listener need to shut off or not attend the questionable show. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. But when there are adults who enjoy it and no laws are being broken, your opinion while worth something to you isn't going to have much of an impact - which is the way it should be. I would say it's common knowledge for the most part when you are a student of comedy. But with that said, failure to adhere to that is almost guaranteed, especially when one is trying to stand out and separate from the herd. However, that's when the audience comes in and judges it for themselves - and that is how the shitty comic is weeded out. I've never seen a majority of audience members (Unless you are attending the KKK's weekly open mic) enjoy out-right bullying and targetting of someone like in your hypothetical example. Never ever.Can you give a different example or is this just hypothetical? I guess - but isn't that the way we all judge it?I've seen crazy situations, where a comic just bashed one dude to the point of making me uncomfortable for the poor dude, and yet after the show the person loved being the center of ridicule (nothing as bad as your example though). In my opinion though, the comic shouldn't have gone after the guy so harshly, but who am I to impose my opinion and demand things done my way? If you could give me a legit example I might consider it an issue but I've never seen it done to such an extreme, and I'm in clubs and bars almost every night.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.