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Author Topic:   Another example of right wing evil
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 53 of 247 (622621)
07-05-2011 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-02-2011 6:36 PM


What is evil about it?
Looks like states rights in action to me.

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 Message 1 by Taz, posted 06-02-2011 6:36 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Rahvin, posted 07-05-2011 4:17 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 55 of 247 (622635)
07-05-2011 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Rahvin
07-05-2011 4:17 PM


what is morally evil about it then?

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 Message 54 by Rahvin, posted 07-05-2011 4:17 PM Rahvin has replied

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 Message 56 by Rahvin, posted 07-05-2011 6:50 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 57 of 247 (622678)
07-05-2011 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Rahvin
07-05-2011 6:50 PM


(1) Teachers will be forbidden to counsel suicidal gay kids because they are forbidden to mention anything gay related.
(2) All literature having any mention of homosexuality will be thrown out.
(3) In history class, teachers will not be able to teach that gay people were victims of the holocaust and other genocidal acts in history.
all 3 of those are strawmen made up by the OP. They are not mentioned in the article that was linked in the OP. The bill is for middle school and younger children. I didn't have sex ed until junior high, so even if this already existed in my home state, it would not have mattered. This is nonsense partisan rage over an non-issue, but I guess I am on EvC, so silly threads like this are to be expected.
rahvin writes:
That is absolutely morally wrong.
ethically its wrong, but its hard to say that it is morally wrong.
rahvin writes:
Just think about it for five minutes, Artemis, and insert some other class of citizens in place of "homosexuality." Would a law banning all mention of the female gender (not the male, but only the female gender) in public schools be morally acceptable to you? What about a law that banned only mention of blacks? Jews? Christians? Native Americans?
apple meet orange.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 58 of 247 (622682)
07-05-2011 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Artemis Entreri
07-05-2011 10:46 PM


if you are a fan of primary sources

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 62 of 247 (622729)
07-06-2011 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Taz
07-06-2011 1:21 AM


Taz writes:
They're not strawmen. They're the inevitable consequence of such a law.
lol...wow.
it states none of that in the text. you can argue the slippery slope if you want to, but you have no evidence to support your assertions.
It's like me pointing a gun to your head and say "either lower your pants so I can rape you or I shoot you in the head" and then I turn around and say "I never forced him to take down his pants... he did all that by himself".
actually its nothing like that at all.
Are you really going to play this childish game of semantics with us like the TSA?
Are you really going to play the immature game a being a left wing political hack?

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 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 07-06-2011 8:50 AM Artemis Entreri has replied
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 65 of 247 (622744)
07-06-2011 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Nuggin
07-06-2011 8:50 AM


Re: The Law and what will happen
nuggin writes:
Most obvious ramification of this is no homosexuality discussed in sex ed class.
When I took sex ed in 7th grade it was a class about how humans reproduce. since we cannot reproduce homosexually, it was not covered in my class. There really is no need to mention homosexuality in a class that teaches student how humans reproduce.
Now, that COULD be used by Conservatives (and let's face it, if they CAN use it, they WILL use it) to insist that homosexuality not be discussed in history class.
you can assume that if you want to I guess.
-no mention of homosexuality among the Greeks
-no mention of gay civil rights
Or social studies/issues class
-no mention of gay marriage
-no mention of gay civil rights
Or potentially (depending on your definition of "instruction") guide councilors
-no support for a kid who is openly gay
-no support for a kid who can't come out for fear of retribution
we are talking about middle and grade school here. How in depth do you think K-6 is in the subjects of History and Social Studies?
I have a bachelor's degree in History and never read about the Gay Greeks in university (and I was educated in the Blue State of Illinois).
Is there _ANYTHING_ to gain from this law? At all?
States Rights and Self determination of the people to rule themselves, without a nanny-state federal government telling them everything they are allowed to do.
Will not mentioning homosexuality somehow magically convert gays back?
that is not the goal here, though to answer your question, no.
What are these people afraid of?
people like you in California, telling them in Tennessee how they have to live, and what they can and cannot do.

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 Message 107 by Taz, posted 07-06-2011 8:40 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 66 of 247 (622747)
07-06-2011 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Straggler
07-06-2011 8:59 AM


oh i don't know, people in TN are sure different. I am just defending their ability of self determination.
I was in TN in April, and I got grief for wearing an Illinois shirt, they told me it reminded them of Obama. I told them when I see a TN shirt it reminds me of Al Gore (they got mad at me for that snide comment).

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 79 of 247 (622771)
07-06-2011 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Nuggin
07-06-2011 10:30 AM


Re: The Law and what will happen
straggler writes:
So why pick a law about homosexuality......
What do you think those who want to implement this law hope to achieve through it's implementation?
As I said before I do not know, I am not a resident of Tennessee. I guess they choose homosexuality because it is an issue that the people feel strongly about there.
noggin writes:
In high school, there is "health" class, which covers things like sexually transmitted diseases, testicular cancer, etc.
While I agree that there is no need to go over more than the basic nuts and bolts in the grade school class, there is no reason NOT to go over homosexuality in the adult version.
Off topic.
This proposed new law only covers elementary and middle school. I linked it on page 4, so that everyone could read the real part of the debate instead of the propaganda that Taz wants everyone to read.
Though I am SHOCKED that your history education didn't brush on homosexuality in greek and roman society. While not "core" to the understanding of these two cultures, it would sort of be like discussing American history without mentioning Puritanism.
I disagree. Homosexuality was accepted in those cultures but it was not a base like Puritanism is here.
The reason we have a nanny-state federal goverment is because southern states insist on acting like children.
Care to show evidence of your assertion?
As much as you hate minority groups, you don't have the right as a member of the Union (and yes, you ARE members of the Union) to pass laws which discriminate against them.
Strawman.
I never stated that I hate minority groups.
Banning teachers from discussing homosexuality in health class discriminates against a percentage of the population the same way banning teachers from discussing the contributions of African Americans would discriminate against a group.
Umhello? Try to stay on topic.
We had a war over this. You lost. Bad.
Or is that someone you also didn't learn in your history class?
LOL
Can you explain how there could exist a heterosexual who wanted to have gay sex but wasn't homosexual?
Where do you place bisexuals are they hetero or homo?
Much the same way that gravity is "debatable" in that people can say "No, I don't want to believe it", but it's not really much of a debate.
Women who produce multiple male children are more likely to produce gay children with each successive male child. This remains true even in cases where the children are raised in different homes as single children (in other words, it has nothing to do with having older brothers in the house).
Basically, the woman's repeated exposure to excess testosterone is having an effect on the fetus in the womb.
That's the science.
Now onto the 1st hand accounts. Ask any given homosexual when he decided it he'd rather be gay and turned his back on heterosexuality.
And then onto logic. If homosexuality is NOT a condition from birth, then people must be getting "talked into it". Meaning, a heterosexual person is presented with an argument for homosexuality that they find so convincing, they turn their back on their natural inclinations to take up a life of rejections and intolerance. Who exactly is presenting them with this argument? If EVERYONE is heterosexual from birth, then there must be a "first gay", a heterosexual who INVENTED homosexuality and talked some other heterosexuals into it.
Can you explain how there could exist a heterosexual who wanted to have gay sex but wasn't homosexual?
Holy cow! I see your strategy of jumping from topic to topic, but the whole debatable thing was the percentage of K-8 students that are involved in homosexual activity, all this other BS you mention is not even on topic. Your strawman that Catholic Scientist said that being gay from birth was debatable is really sad, he even quoted you and put into bold font what was debatable.
You speak of logic and then fail to use it. Hilarious!!!!
hooah212002 writes:
Wow. I feel bad for your school if that's all your sexual education was about. Must have been a very short class, eh? No mention of diseases associated with sex? No mention of condoms or how to put one on? It was STRICTLY about reproduction/pregnancy etc.?
Yeah I went to Catholic Grade School, diseases were mentioned, but no condoms.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Nuggin, posted 07-06-2011 12:09 PM Artemis Entreri has replied
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 92 of 247 (622815)
07-06-2011 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Nuggin
07-06-2011 12:09 PM


Re: The Law and what will happen
Nuggin writes:
Your opinion doesn't really count though does it? You opened this argument with the admission that you didn't learn about this topic when getting your education.
That's sort of like saying "we didn't go over algebra in school, but I don't think X is a number".
Not at all, lol.
You are comparing apples (religion and culture) to oranges (sexuality). Keep the comedy rolling, you’ll put onifre out of a job.
Now, I know that the South prides itself on being unamerican, but you guys did LOSE the civil war, remember?
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!
St. Louis is not and never was in the south. I can’t believe I am debating with someone who is too ignorant to know this.
LOL
My assertion is that the Federal Government has to step in because southern states are misbehaving.
Do you want to start with the Civil War or with Civil Rights?
Are misbehaving suggests presently, yet both of the examples you wish to discuss happened in the past, interesting.
Brown vs. the Board of education happened in Kansas. I feel the need to inform you that Kansas in the North. Most people know this, but since you thought Catholic Scientist was from the south I do not want to assume anything about what you know, or do not know.
The question was "how did the first heterosexual convince the 2nd heterosexual to have gay sex with him if neither of them wanted to in the first place??"
Forget to take your Ritalin today? The question was about a proposed law in TN that is going to refrain from mentioning or discussing homosexuality in school before high school. You countered with a bunch of ideas about it affecting high school, which is clearly excluded from this bill. You were wrong and want to move the goal posts to make this about something else, but you already fucked up and me and CS are here to point that out.
If you want to talk about the nature of homosexuality and how people are or become homosexual then I suggest you stop thread jacking and create your own thread.
So, students need to engage in sexual activity prior to getting education about it? Really? That's your position?
WTF!?! Can you read English? Can you formulate a logical opinion without telling other people what they are saying (strawman)?
Funniest thread all week on any message board I am on.
So, the UPSIDE of including it is that some children are helped. The DOWNSIDE of including it is that some parents are bigots.
So, let's NOT include it, because helping children is less noble than satisfying bigots.
The only bigot I have heard this whole thread is one who thinks the whole south is misbehaving and needs to be controlled, and that the people of Tennessee are so incompetent that other people need to make decisions for them.
That brings us right back to the title of the thread: Right wing evil
You are quickly making this look like: left wing lunacy
However, it is important for all kids to feel accepted.
Except because these kids are from Tennessee, they cannot be accepted by people like you because they are from the south.
quote:
And telling kids that school is the wrong place to get information is EXACTLY what I expect from a state like Tennessee

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Nuggin, posted 07-06-2011 12:09 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 93 of 247 (622817)
07-06-2011 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by New Cat's Eye
07-06-2011 3:39 PM


Re: The Law and what will happen
Catholic Scientist writes:
So much for this discussion...
yeah this guy is absolutely crazy. strawman after strawman, ignoring the topic, jacking the thread to make it about something that is isn't.
this place used to be a place for a more logical debate about an issue, EvC has kind of gone to shit.
its kind of sad, i like this place.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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 Message 91 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-06-2011 3:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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 Message 94 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-06-2011 3:48 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 95 of 247 (622821)
07-06-2011 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Straggler
07-06-2011 2:15 PM


Re: The Law and what will happen
sorry i couldn't resist dealing with the ignorant guy 1st, I mean come on, you are not even from America and I bet you know the difference between the northern states and the southern ones.
I really only have personal experience in eastern Tennessee, the part that borders Virginia, the part that voted to stay in the union.
I don't think it is obviously anything more than a self deterministic legislature. I think this state issue like the immigration one in Arizona, and other legislatures in other states right not is anything more than the leftist propaganda making something out to be more than it is.
I think this thread is a perfect example. Two people defend the right of a state to make it own laws, and the looney left accuses them of hating people and bigotry. The only thing I am guilty of is being a fan of liberty.
but to answer your question: I think the residents and representatives of Tennessee "feel strongly" that the education of their children on the issue of homosexuality is something that they prefer be taught at home and not in a publicly funded state institution. They seem to not care about the subject as much in high school.
quote:
Do you think their feelings regarding homosexuality are positive - For example?
It is hard to say. This example would lead one to think no, but the Tracy Morgan example leads one to think the answer is yes.
its probably not a yes no answer.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 96 of 247 (622822)
07-06-2011 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by New Cat's Eye
07-06-2011 3:48 PM


Re: The Law and what will happen
well its the same kind of..."logic" that we have gotten for the last 3 pages from the gentleman from California.
LOL this has been too funny.
I mean talk about bigotry towards an entire portion of the country "the south", but to have no idea where the south actually is. WOW.
The people of Tennessee hate gay people, which is why Tracy Morgan got into trouble and was ousted for his anti-gay comedy in....get...ready....for...it?
NASHVILLE TENNESSEE
the irony of this whole thing is too funny, even those who insinuate about the motives of people from TN, really don't know.
paz.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 108 of 247 (622888)
07-07-2011 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Taz
07-06-2011 8:40 PM


Re: The Law and what will happen
Taz writes:
And what university did you go to? The university of jesus christ?
Southern Illinois University. and George Mason University.
I'm not only interested in history, I'm passionate about it. The only reason I didn't major in history and decided to pursue a field of science was because I strongly disagreed with the academic field being taken over by post-modernist drivel.
sounds like a cop out to me, I just double majored and got a history degree and a geography degree at the same time. History for fun, and geography for work.
o, you're technically correct when you said ancient greece didn't touch on "homosexuality" the word. But unless you got your degree from either the university of jesus christ or a diploma mill, you're bound to run into "homosexuality" the concept. It's an integral part of our world history.
its really not.
Thanks for demonstrating how even a history major could totally ignore such an important part of our world history. It's like majoring in American History without ever reading about the Ghost Dance or the Trail of Tears.
and you would know because you majored in history too... oh wait.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 109 of 247 (622889)
07-07-2011 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Nuggin
07-06-2011 4:44 PM


Re: The Law and what will happen
nuggin writes:
St. Louis is also not in Tennessee, ya jackass.
with your inability to remain focused on the topic I am sure its hard for you to keep up.
you responded to CS, and quoted his text, then called him out as a southerner. CS is from the north, near St. Louis.
I live in Virginia (near Washington DC), in the south.
the thread is about some legislation in Tennessee.
I know its difficult (for you) to keep up, but if you try I think you can do it (maybe).
The South has a long proud history of ignorance, hate and begging.
If Tennessee were a donor state, paying the way for other ignorant beggar states, then maybe I'd cut them some slack. But, alas, they are not.
Instead, they want to bitch and moan about how the Federal Government is so mean for demanding that we obey the Constitution if we want to get money from them.
Time for all you Red State monkeys to grow the hell up. All you do is bitch and collect welfare checks.
off topic. (for the umpteenth time)
This from the jackass that claims to be in St. Louis, Tennessee.
LOL are you really that thick?
find on this thread where I claim that, because I have not.
you even suck at making strawmen LOL!!!!
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Nuggin, posted 07-06-2011 4:44 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 115 of 247 (622924)
07-07-2011 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Nuggin
07-07-2011 11:16 AM


Re: Lets start over
noggin writes:
Okay, you win. You are the biggest troll under the bridge. You can fling shit faster than anyone else. Yay for you.
Do you always result to Ad hominem after your strawmen fail?
Why is Tennessee trying to pass this law in the first place? What is it meant to correct?
They must feel that it is important to them. Why does a law have to correct anything?
Is there some plague of exceedingly graphic instruction on man on man sex that is going on in grade schools in Tennessee that has gone unreported?
I don’t know, and I don’t care if there is I am not a resident of TN; it’s none of my business.
Is there a case of a kid who was harmed? If so, how?
???
WHY, specifically, is Tennessee pushing this legislation through APART from some anti-gay agenda?
To counter the gay agenda? LOL just kidding. It’s not part of an anti-gay agenda, it’s simply defining a previously ambiguous law. They are going to refrain from teaching kids about gay sex in elementary school.
Someone who doesn’t want their 7 year old daughter in 2nd grade learning about male on male butt fucking, is not part of some anti-gay conspiracy, they are probably just being a good parent.
Is there ANY reason OTHER than "Jesus hates fags"?
This question is based on a false premise.
Jesus doesn’t hate anyone. But don’t try and do business in his temple (he’ll kick your ass).
And the existing law was broken and needed amending in what way?
Who said it was broken? I think they are defining the previous law further, to be more specific.
Is there some famous story in the Tenn Newspaper about a kid who got gay on him then accidentally turns his whole family gay?
I realize that geography is not one of your strong subjects (you are an American so it’s okay, most are bad at the subject). Tennessee is a state. It is 42,000 square miles (about 440miles x 120miles). There is no Tennessee Newspaper. WTF are you talking about?
Why, apart from "Jesus hate fags", is this amendment being pushed through the legislature?
false premise. Invalid question.
Which brings us back to - why?
Because the people of Tennessee want to, that is why.
Again, point to a single teacher in Tenn who has been handing out graphic gay porn to 3rd graders and I'll drop my argument.
Yeah right, you move the goalposts every page, your argument changes constantly.

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