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Author
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Topic: Jazzns' History of Belief
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Give Us A Break
Hooah writes: This is what sickens me about religious people. You're all pompous and every one of you has the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality. Except you guys throw in the "and you're going to hell cuz you're wrong". Every one of us?  The way I see it, if God exists and is able to and willing to care about we humans, He (She?) will deal with us based on the parameters that we ourselves have consciously or unconsciously agreed to. Hell as a concept was never meant for us. It is only a given default for stubborn people who wont face reality. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by hooah212002, posted 07-27-2011 10:02 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Re: Give Us A Break
And what "reality" is that, Phat? quote:
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
It all boils down to whether or not we are open to the possibility that there may be a way to live life that is not of our own inclination. Then again, why on earth would humanity be so declined?
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Re: Give Us A Break
I'm assuming for the sake of argument that Hell was a real place and/or option. Personally, even as a believer, I am unafraid of such a concept. The issue that has me puzzled is why a concept of a Supreme Being is so outdated...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by hooah212002, posted 09-19-2011 10:47 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 80 of 140 (637852)
10-18-2011 10:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by GDR
10-17-2011 1:43 PM
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Re: Altruism - The Big Mac Effect
GDR writes: I think that we have a basic pre-disposition to instinctively act selfishly but that we also have an aspect of our nature that we usually call a conscience. If we listen to that conscience and act on that, and do it consistently then over time it will become instinctive to act altruistically. This is evolution at its finest! In my opinion, God uses certain traits found in evolution to apply finishing touches on His creation. It would be too easy to simply create us perfect, with no teachable moments at evolving. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 1:43 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 82 of 140 (637855)
10-18-2011 10:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Straggler
10-18-2011 10:17 AM
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Re: Altruism - The Big Mac Effect
in my opinion, God is only responsible for the initial act of creation. He is no more responsible than the parent of an adult is. (assuming our status is adults and not children! )
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2011 10:17 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 84 of 140 (637858)
10-18-2011 10:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 83 by Straggler
10-18-2011 10:26 AM
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Questions without Answers
These are questions without answers...however we can speculate...and since we are in the Faith & Belief Forum, we don't have to be logical at all times.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2011 10:26 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 86 of 140 (637861)
10-18-2011 10:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 85 by Straggler
10-18-2011 10:38 AM
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Re: Questions without Answers
Straggler writes: Well then I'd speculate that either god wants us to be horny perpetrators of infidelity, or that he is a bit of a bastard by making us want what he also tells us we shouldn't want or that he doesn't actually exist and that such conflicts are better explained in evolutionary terms that require no reference to godly plans. If God exists and did design us, He obviously gave us hormones and sex drives. As to whether He is a bit of a bastard, I can only say that my old man was also a bit of a bastard yet he loved me so far as I know and was a bastard only to better me. If God doesn't exist, He doesn't exist.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 85 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2011 10:38 AM | | Straggler has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 87 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2011 10:56 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 127 of 140 (638732)
10-25-2011 11:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 124 by Jazzns
10-24-2011 11:26 AM
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Re: Matters of ultimate importance?
Interesting line of thoughts, and interesting responses! My 2 cents: 1) Closer or further from God---How is it logically possible, given that God is omnipresent? I understand the concept GDR gives, however. My short answer is that I feel closer to my own belief and sanity without so much of a leap of faith...does that make any sense?
Jazzns writes: I would say that my beliefs lie upon a tangent to the spectrum of "closer or further" from god. In short, I reject the question. This got me to thinking what rejection of such a question would mean. For me, staying in the agnostic "I don't know" place is more sane than outright rejection...simply based upon absence of evidence. When I try and "talk with God" I am well aware that His presence is not usually confirmed through any feelings...but to reject the possibility of His reality requires a bold step of faith in a direction I choose not to go. In short, I think that I reject the idea of being OK with the possibility that God didn't exist.
Jazzns,to GDR writes: Presumably, in your ethos, someone who is just tries to be a good person their entire life will do just fine in the after life without the need to attribute their values to a deity.
Which for me means why reject an unknown? I think the difference between Jazzns and myself is that he was unafraid to reject a concept that was not real to him...I was fearful of even considering such a possibility.
Jazzns writes: If the content of our character is what matters, what is so special about the massivly insignificant time that we spend as mortals that it should determine our fortune for eternity? Can our character not change in the afterlife? Can someone who spends the equivalent of a mortal lifetime in hell not simply come to the heartfelt conclusion that they were wrong and then be saved? I really like your line of reasoning, here. These are great questions! Perhaps one answer is that we don't have an infinite amount of time to decide. Which begs the question of how much time is enough?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 124 by Jazzns, posted 10-24-2011 11:26 AM | | Jazzns has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 129 of 140 (638743)
10-25-2011 12:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 128 by Rahvin
10-25-2011 12:30 PM
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Re: Matters of ultimate importance?
What if the concept of Hell is merely a willful choice to not share communion (common union or existence) with God? Besides, who is charged to do the judging?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 128 by Rahvin, posted 10-25-2011 12:30 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 130 by Rahvin, posted 10-25-2011 12:48 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 131 of 140 (638748)
10-25-2011 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 130 by Rahvin
10-25-2011 12:48 PM
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Re: Matters of ultimate importance?
Phat writes: What if the concept of Hell is merely a willful choice to not share communion (common union or existence) with God? Besides, who is charged to do the judging? Rahvin,replying writes: Only if you're reading a different Bible from the one I read. I prefer to discuss God and belief concepts philosophically and openly speculative rather than limit them to the Bible...though that can be one guideline.
Rahvin writes: But what's actually entailed by "not sharing communion with God?" What would existence be like? Would I be alone, or with others who made similar "choices?" Do we get a world to live in, or do we just float in an endless void? Do you know? It's somewhat relevant information to making such a significant choice, don't you think, since after death you can never change your mind? Great question to think about! Assuming that for the moment and purposes of this discussion, God is a possibility and a relationship in everyone's life that must be accepted, ignored, obeyed, (or perhaps) challenged.
What would existence be like? Would I be alone, or with others who made similar "choices?" Who would you prefer being "in communion" or contact with? Family? Close friends? Beer buddies? ex-wives? Chinese?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 130 by Rahvin, posted 10-25-2011 12:48 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 132 by Rahvin, posted 10-25-2011 2:07 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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