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Author Topic:   Nature's innate intelligence. Does it exist?
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 303 (637549)
10-16-2011 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by zi ko
10-16-2011 12:58 PM


no intelligence required
A human can decide whether or not to attach to another person, a hydrogen atom does not get to decide whether to attach to an oxygen atom.
Edited by jar, : rally appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by zi ko, posted 10-16-2011 12:58 PM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by zi ko, posted 10-19-2011 12:14 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 303 (637729)
10-17-2011 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by GDR
10-17-2011 2:07 PM


I think what he is trying to say is that a cell, although it doesn’t have intelligence of its own, (although I don’t know why he started talking about a cell seeing), does have intelligence built into its function.
What intelligence is built into the function of a cell?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 2:07 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 8:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 303 (637761)
10-17-2011 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by GDR
10-17-2011 8:04 PM


Too funny.
Sorry but none of that involves intelligence, it is just simple mechanics.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 39 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 8:04 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 45 of 303 (637772)
10-17-2011 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by GDR
10-17-2011 9:31 PM


what stored intelligence?
For example a leaf turning to the sun. It seems to me that stored intelligence such as that would be considered innate intelligence.
What stored intelligence?
The plant turns towards the sun because of mechanics, no intelligence involved. It is no different than an ice cube melting in the sun.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 9:31 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 10:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 49 of 303 (637778)
10-17-2011 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by GDR
10-17-2011 10:11 PM


Re: what stored intelligence?
Utter crap.
No it does not take information/memory/intelligence to initiate it. And your example of pulling a hand away from hot surface is NOT similar.
The plant cannot decide to turn away from the sun.
There is no "learned response".
There is no "memory" involved.
There is no "information" in any sense that might be even vaguely related to intelligence.
The plant turning to face the sun is simple mechanics with NO decisions involved.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 10-17-2011 10:11 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by shadow71, posted 10-25-2011 5:09 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 65 of 303 (637877)
10-18-2011 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Panda
10-18-2011 11:39 AM


Re: Devils Advocate...
Fortunately a human brain is not just one cell, but rather a fairly complex network of cells. While no individual cell can be said to be capable of either though or intelligence the rather complex machine called a brain can.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 63 by Panda, posted 10-18-2011 11:39 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

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 Message 66 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2011 12:08 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 67 of 303 (637883)
10-18-2011 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Straggler
10-18-2011 12:08 PM


Re: Devils Advocate...
Because it is capable of NOT turning to face the sun.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Straggler, posted 10-18-2011 12:08 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 8:07 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 303 (637889)
10-18-2011 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by GDR
10-18-2011 1:48 PM


Re: Devils Advocate...
GDR writes:
Where is that intelligence if it isn't in our cells?
There is no intelligence involved in your example that can "be" anywhere. They are learned responses but they are not innate to a cell anymore than whether a one or zero is stored in a particular bit.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by GDR, posted 10-18-2011 1:48 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 89 of 303 (638013)
10-19-2011 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Straggler
10-19-2011 8:07 AM


Re: Devils Advocate...
I'm sorry but I don't see any point or relevancy in that post.
Intelligence is increased complexity and the ability to make irrational, illogical and unreasonable decisions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 8:07 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 9:58 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 91 of 303 (638027)
10-19-2011 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Straggler
10-19-2011 9:58 AM


Re: Devils Advocate...
Since that has already been answered several times, I still am at a loss about what you are asking.
The blurring is when the critter can decide NOT to respond and the ability to make irrational, illogical and unreasonable decisions.
You even quoted that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 9:58 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 10:49 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 93 of 303 (638030)
10-19-2011 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Straggler
10-19-2011 10:49 AM


Re: Devils Advocate...
Asked and answered.
Yes.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 10:49 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 11:10 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 95 of 303 (638033)
10-19-2011 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Straggler
10-19-2011 11:10 AM


Re: Devils Advocate...
Sorry, no dualism required.
Once again, asked and answered.
It is simply a matter of complexity and the capability to act in an unreasonable, irrational and illogical manner.
It is simply the ability to NOT turn to face the sun.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 11:10 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 12:16 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 303 (638048)
10-19-2011 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by zi ko
10-19-2011 12:14 PM


Re: no intelligence required
Yes, it is a matter of complexity which is lacking in a cell.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by zi ko, posted 10-19-2011 12:14 PM zi ko has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 101 of 303 (638049)
10-19-2011 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Straggler
10-19-2011 12:16 PM


Re: Devils Advocate...
Sorry but I simply do not believe you.
Of course it involves more than just the laws of chemistry and physics.
Once again, asked and answered.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 12:16 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Straggler, posted 10-19-2011 12:34 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 146 of 303 (638291)
10-21-2011 10:51 AM


Testing intelligence
So we are in a forum dedicated to the question "Is it Science".
So the next step I would think would be for zi ko to present the experiment that could be used to test his so called theory.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
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