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Author Topic:   Did Dinosaurs live with man?
ScottyDouglas
Member (Idle past 2281 days)
Posts: 79
Joined: 05-10-2012


(2)
Message 1 of 373 (662696)
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Did dinosaurs live amoungst men?
If so then this would put a large hole in the evolutionary theory.

The recordings of dinosaur like creatures have been recorded for thousands of years. Many cultures have used images of dinosaurs and dragons.

I will post many evidences of dinosaurs with modern and acient man.

Design?evolution?creation?

Today most people are taught that the dinosaurs roamed the earth 65 million years ago. Then over millions of years these dinosaurs evolved into living species of today. Though this history that is taught does not comply with actual history an the known geological record. It gives no account of the mass amounts of fossil graveyards. Nor does it explain the amounts of the animals found in that same fossil record are still alive today.

Here you will be presented with evidence that dinosaurs existed with man. There is much evidence to verify that acient man encountered dinosaurs. There is also evidence that can show that some serviving dinosaurs could be still alive today.

We will start with the history's most recorded book the Bible:
KJV-R (Webster) Job 40:15 "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are asstrong pieces of brass; his bones arelike bars of iron.
19 He isthe chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him withtheir shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, andhasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: hisnose pierceth through snares."

This is clearly refering to a large animal that is simliar to what we know as dinosaurs.

The legend of dragons is in almost every culture in human history. Our perception to what is today called dinosaurs what a word that was only started to be used in the late 1800's. In the 'Hostoria Animalium' records that still in the 1500's dragons still lived though extremely rare. In 1572 Vlysses Aldrovandvs described a dragon being killed by a farmer thsi animal was like the Tanystropheus. In the tales of Gilgamesh were he killed a huge reptile like animal that ate trees and took its head. In acient China thousands of stories of dragons appear. Dragons are a huge part of thier culture. A legendary stroy of Yu killing dragons and reptiles from his land. Many stories tell of cultures rasing and keeping dragons. in Ireland 900ad
tells of a iron like beast with great spikes on its tail and it was bigger than a rhyno similar to a Stegosaurus. Herodotus a famous Greek exsplorer recorded small flying reptiles in Eygpt and Arabia that were multi colored and similar to Ramphorhynchus. In Natural history by Pliny 70 ad "Africa produces elephants but it is in India that produces the largest, as well as the dragon." Claudius Aelians in 200ad wrote,"The Phrygian history also states that dragons are born which reach ten paces in length." Marco Polo in 1271 ad recorded that the Chinese emporer had large reptiles or dargons that pulled his chariot. He writes in Travels of Marco Polo,"Here are seen huge serpents, ten paces in length and ten spans in girth. At the fore part, near the head, they have two short legs, having three claws like those of a tiger, with eyes larger than a pennyloaf. The jaws are wide enough to swallow a man. Thier appearance is so formiable that no amn or animal approach them." Anglo-Saxon Chronicle AD 793,'there were immense sheets of light terrifying the people, rushing through the air, whirlwinds, fiery dragons flying accorss the sky.' Alexander the Great, said when he came to India in 326 bc, his soldiers were scared by great dragons that dwelt in caves. In 275 ad George of Lybia guard in Rome killed a dragon. Many dragons and Dinosaur like creatures have been reported throughout many cultures and peoples.

Physical evidence that dinosaurs lived with man!
The truth is undeniable!

Ica, Peru - Nazca Indians 1 ad to 750 ad Ica stones
This culture produced many crafts and artwork. This culture produced massive amounts of carvings and painting that have actual well known dinosaurs on them. These are well recorded acient discoveries that relate that dinosaurs and large ones were a everyday exsperience to these people.
in 1535 Spanish came through Peru and reported finding stones with strange creatures on them.

In Mexico over 56 thousand clay figurines were found all depicting dinosaurs. The age of these figurines are around 2000 bc.

It is well known that the Aztecs portrayed serpents and dragons in thier culture.

Many people today still claim seeing an array of long ago exstinct dinosaurs.

There has been a T-rex found with actual blood vessels and dna intact. After millions of years these things should not be still intact.

It would not be hard to believe that dinosaurs once lived with man. That dinosaurs went into the ark with Noah and tried to populate again. Though with many trees and grasslands hurt by the flood food would be scarce. Men could have easliy killed off modt of the dinosaurs for food, game, and because dinosaurs could have been a problem.

Our fossil records that record dinosaurs are filled with species of both tree and animals that were long ago thought to be exstinct. There are many planets and species that are in the same fossil bed as dinosaurs. Many can claim that dinosaurs are millions of years old but thier are a few things in the fossil record that show different.


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AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1886
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 373 (662698)
05-18-2012 4:02 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Did Dinosaurs live with man? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 3 of 373 (662702)
05-18-2012 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


SD writes:

The recordings of dinosaur like creatures have been recorded for thousands of years. Many cultures have used images of dinosaurs and dragons.

We still do. (Have you read The Hobbit?)
We also have a history of writing about fairies. Do they exist too?

SD writes:

We will start with the history's most recorded book the Bible:
...
This is clearly refering to a large animal that is simliar to what we know as dinosaurs.

You use the word 'clearly' to lend credence to your hand-waving use of the word 'similar'. Not exactly conclusive.

SD writes:

Physical evidence that dinosaurs lived with man!
The truth is undeniable!

If you had linked some physical evidence, then you might have a point.
But since you didn't, you don't.

SD writes:

There has been a T-rex found with actual blood vessels and dna intact. After millions of years these things should not be still intact.

No there hasn't. (Read and learn.)

SD writes:

Many can claim that dinosaurs are millions of years old but thier are a few things in the fossil record that show different.

What are those 'few things'?
Since you claimed you had evidence, this would have been an appropriate time to provide it.

SD writes:

I will post many evidences of dinosaurs with modern and acient man.

SD writes:

Here you will be presented with evidence that dinosaurs existed with man.

SD writes:

There is much evidence to verify that acient man encountered dinosaurs.

SD writes:

There is also evidence that can show that some serviving dinosaurs could be still alive today.


I look forward to seeing this evidence.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

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vimesey
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Posts: 894
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.5


(4)
Message 4 of 373 (662703)
05-18-2012 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Hi there Scotty - I'm no natrual historian, nor a scientist with any expertise in dating fossils, and so I will leave to someone else running through our ability to date dinosaur fossils with a strong degree of certainty. I just wanted to address some of the points you make in your post.

Many cultures have used images of dinosaurs and dragons.

Dragons, yes. They are a widespread cultural phenomenon. But I am not aware of many cultures using images of T-Rex's, pterodactyls, diplodoci, triceratops etc. (Modern comics and films, yes, but not in the sense of ancient cultures, which you imply). Do you have any examples of actual dinosaurs being represented, as distinct from fanciful mythological beasts ? After all, if ancient man did wander around with dinosaurs as you contend, it would be odd if they didn't get the details right of even one actual dinosaur on any paintings they did. They were quite good with bison in the cave paintings at Lascaux, for example.

We will start with the history's most recorded book the Bible

This one has been done to death on these boards, but just because something is written in a book, does not make it evidence. Just because that book might be "history's most recorded" (I'm not too sure what you mean by that) does not change the fact that what is written in it is not evidence. Lots of things are written in books - some of it useful, some of it rubbish. To work out which is which, you have to look at external evidence - the fact that the words are written in a book (the original language of which, by the way, is dead, and the translation of which is subject to much debate) is neither here nor there.

This is clearly refering to a large animal that is simliar to what we know as dinosaurs.

"This is clearly referring to a large animal" - yep, I'd agree with that statement. "that is similar to what we know as dinosaurs" - nope, I don't see that you can draw that conclusion from the text you quote. There is nowhere near sufficient detail to say that. As far as I can make out, we can determine that the animal in question was seen to be strong, have strong bones, liked to lie in the shade and drank a lot of water. That description does apply to many dinosaurs, but it also applies to numerous other types of animal. To conclude that the bible described a dinosaur, you would have to be able to eliminate all other animals. On the text you quote, you can't make that elimination.

The legend of dragons is in almost every culture in human history.

It's certainly in quite a few of them, no argument there. However, no cultural representation of a dragon is even a fair approximation of an actual dinosaur. Not many dinosaurs flew, and those that did look nothing like any cultural dragons. In fact, if you go back further in history, dragons look much less like heavily bodied and limbed reptiles, and more like serpents. (With wings and fire breath added in, yes, but hey). There is no clearer link between dinosaurs and dragons than there is between modern day reptiles and dragons (snakes, crocodiles, kimodo dragons etc). The myths of dragons can easily have arisen from those modern day reptiles. For mythological beasts to be evidence of what you state (and to be fair, you have to concede that using mythological beasts as any form of evidence is pretty thin), then you are going to have to eliminate the possibility that the myths arose from modern reptiles.

The truth is undeniable!

Ica, Peru - Nazca Indians 1 ad to 750 ad Ica stones

You're going to need to be careful with this one Scotty - the Ica stones were hoaxes (and really obvious ones at that - I mean, ok, the farmer was working with pretty basic stuff, but they are so obvious).

It would not be hard to believe that dinosaurs once lived with man. That dinosaurs went into the ark with Noah and tried to populate again. Though with many trees and grasslands hurt by the flood food would be scarce. Men could have easliy killed off modt of the dinosaurs for food, game, and because dinosaurs could have been a problem.

Yeah, you're speculating here Scotty - you promised us evidence.

Many can claim that dinosaurs are millions of years old but thier are a few things in the fossil record that show different.

Can you list those things please ?


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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 5 of 373 (662705)
05-18-2012 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Are you trying to prove that fire-breathing, flying dragons exist(ed)? of that Dinosaurs co existed with man?

Your opening post suggests the former...


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ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(3)
Message 6 of 373 (662709)
05-18-2012 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


It would not be hard to believe that dinosaurs once lived with man. That dinosaurs went into the ark with Noah and tried to populate again. Though with many trees and grasslands hurt by the flood food would be scarce. Men could have easliy killed off modt of the dinosaurs for food, game, and because dinosaurs could have been a problem.

The amount of information that you are failing to acknowledge here is just astounding. Go to your nearest museum of natural history and spend a day there. Picture yourself trying to subdue a T-rex with a pointy stick.

Edited by Dogmafood, : No reason given.


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 6238
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 7 of 373 (662711)
05-18-2012 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


ScottyDouglas writes:

Did dinosaurs live amoungst men?

No

Should we do unicorns next?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 138 days)
Posts: 2372
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(2)
Message 8 of 373 (662712)
05-18-2012 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Hi Scotty,

There are many plants and species that are in the same fossil bed as dinosaurs.

True enough. Yet none of them are humans.

I would love to hear your explanation for this. Why are there no fossil beds that combine human and dinosaur fossils?

Mutate and Survive


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Coragyps
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Posts: 5351
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 9 of 373 (662714)
05-18-2012 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


many trees and grasslands hurt by the flood......

Hurt by an hundred and fifty days of submergence in muddy salt water? Isn't "hurt" understating things here a bit? And isn't it your book that says, "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."

It would not be hard to believe that dinosaurs once lived with man.

It would be pretty damn difficult to believe if you took the briefest of peeks at the evidence.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 10 of 373 (662716)
05-18-2012 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Did dinosaurs live amoungst men?

No, that's impossible. They died out too long before we even emerged.

The recordings of dinosaur like creatures have been recorded for thousands of years. Many cultures have used images of dinosaurs and dragons.

Yup, that's because they found the fossils too. For example, we've figured out that the story of the cyclops most likely stems from discovering mammoth bones. If you look at the skull of a mammoth:

You can see how someone would think that is the skull of a giant one-eyed humanoid.

That ancient people concocted these stories does not offer any plausibility to the actual existance of the creatures in their stories. What actually happened, is that they had a little bit of evidence, and then filled in all the blanks with imagination.


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Coyote
Member (Idle past 56 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(4)
Message 11 of 373 (662717)
05-18-2012 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Bones
The bones, Scotty, the bones.

Where are the bones?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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RAZD
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From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(2)
Message 12 of 373 (662721)
05-18-2012 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 3:55 AM


Hi ScottyDouglas,

Just a quick note or two:

The legend of dragons is in almost every culture in human history. ...

And this should be your first "fire breathing" clue that these legends are not based on encounters with actual living dinosaurs.

The fact that fossils of dinosaurs exist today, and existed in the times when those legends were born should also be evidence that the dragon concepts were based on the fossils.

Again I suggest you read The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times by Adrienne Mayor.

Did dinosaurs live amoungst men?
If so then this would put a large hole in the evolutionary theory.

Curiously it would not dent the theory of evolution in the slightest. It would mean some updated knowledge about the natural world, but it would not change the evolution of any species.

Our interpretation of the past natural history of the life on earth is not the theory of evolution -- the theory of evolution explains the evidence, and when new evidence is found (such as a living dinosaur) then the theory is tested to see if it can explain the new evidence. Living dinosaurs would not be a significant test, it would be no different than the discovery of the Coelacanths in 1938.

I will post many evidences of dinosaurs with modern and acient man.

The numbers of orders of organisms living since the time of the dinosaurs include (but are not limited to) the mentioned Coelacants, Sharks, Crocodiles, and Birds ...

... and birds are properly classified as a sub-branch of dinosaurs. So technically we currently live with dinosaurs, and amazingly it doesn't affect the theory of evolution at all.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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ScottyDouglas
Member (Idle past 2281 days)
Posts: 79
Joined: 05-10-2012


Message 13 of 373 (662731)
05-18-2012 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Granny Magda
05-18-2012 7:27 AM


Would Dinosaurs and humans live in the same place? If dinosaurs were big and furious would man and them live next door?
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ScottyDouglas
Member (Idle past 2281 days)
Posts: 79
Joined: 05-10-2012


Message 14 of 373 (662733)
05-18-2012 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by RAZD
05-18-2012 12:01 PM


Again appling that some how people like Christopher columbus and Marco Polo who wrote about such beats did not know what they were describing or talking about? That seems like science today assumes that they are the only ones who knew and can properly describe a dinosaur. Stick to your gunns till the end because IF dinos walked with man darwins evolution theory is done. That also means all your dating and knowledge you proclaim throughout the world is false.

But yes more evidence coming up!!

Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.


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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 15 of 373 (662734)
05-18-2012 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ScottyDouglas
05-18-2012 1:45 PM


Until man finished eating them or domesticating them, sure.

But man never did either since there is no evidence that man and non-birdie dinos ever lived at the same time.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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