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Author Topic:   Do you dare to search for pressure cooker now?
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 142 of 272 (705454)
08-27-2013 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by jar
08-26-2013 9:57 PM


Re: Your examples are not equivalent and in the OP no rights were infringed.
jar writes:
Since i would assume anyone with an moderate education and over the age of 12 or so would know how to make a bomb
jar writes:
Note I said that knowing how to make a bomb would be sufficient to justify an investigation.
So do you think being over 12 years old and having had at least a moderate education is sufficient grounds upon which to investigated as a bomb maker.....?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 08-26-2013 9:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 08-27-2013 3:37 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 144 of 272 (705479)
08-27-2013 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by jar
08-27-2013 3:37 PM


I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
So being over 12 years old and moderately educated is sufficient to justify investigation as far as you are concerned.
A) What level of education do you mean by 'moderately educated'?
B) Is the level of investigation described in the OP (i.e. searching one's home) appropriate for anyone over 12 years old who is moderately educated on the basis that they have the potential to make a bomb?
Are you moderately educated and over 12 years old?
Should the police be searching your home on that basis alone?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 08-27-2013 3:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by jar, posted 08-27-2013 6:34 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 151 of 272 (705651)
08-30-2013 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by jar
08-27-2013 6:34 PM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
jar writes:
Investigate and search are not synonymous.
The investigation described in the OP involved the search described. It is whether the actions taken as described in the OP are justified that is the question here.
jar writes:
Since i would assume anyone with an moderate education and over the age of 12 or so would know how to make a bomb
jar writes:
Note I said that knowing how to make a bomb would be sufficient to justify an investigation.
Is having a moderate education and being over the age of 12 sufficient grounds to justify a search?
jar writes:
I think the level of investigation described in the OP is so minimal that I can't imagine many folk have any issue with it.
I think having 6 armed officials turning up at one's home to examine the contents of book shelves and check cooking appliances on the basis that one is "moderately educated" and "over the age of 12" to be rather too all-encompassing.
jar writes:
I certainly know many ways to make bombs and have known many ways to make bombs for over a half century.
I think we should alert the authorities.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by jar, posted 08-27-2013 6:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 8:53 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 153 of 272 (705655)
08-30-2013 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
08-30-2013 8:53 AM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
jar writes:
And I have pointed out repeatedly why I think the actions taken in the OP example were fully justified, reasonable and appropriate.
I'd love to see your stated criteria for justifying such actions (being moderately educated and over the age of 12) put forward in an official setting such as a court of law or a government policy proposal........

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 8:53 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by dronestar, posted 08-30-2013 9:26 AM Straggler has not replied
 Message 155 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 9:33 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 159 of 272 (705672)
08-30-2013 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
08-30-2013 9:33 AM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
Who is talking about warrants?
I'm just imagining the politician or judge brave enough to put your criteria into words and tell those who are moderately educated and over 12 years old to expect those agents to turn up at any time.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 9:33 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 12:35 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 162 of 272 (705679)
08-30-2013 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by jar
08-30-2013 12:35 PM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
That being moderately educated and over the age of 12 doesn't qualify anyone as a bomb suspect worthy of a visit from 6 agents of the joint terrorist task force.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 12:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 12:55 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(2)
Message 164 of 272 (705682)
08-30-2013 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by jar
08-30-2013 12:55 PM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
If you think it's a "good thing" that your criteria are not being applied why are you advocating those criteria...?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 12:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 1:23 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 166 of 272 (705687)
08-30-2013 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by jar
08-30-2013 1:23 PM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
The investigation described in the OP involved a visit from 6 agents from the joint terrorist task force. The rest is simply a case of reading what you have written:
jar writes:
Since i would assume anyone with an moderate education and over the age of 12 or so would know how to make a bomb
jar writes:
Note I said that knowing how to make a bomb would be sufficient to justify an investigation.
jar writes:
I think the level of investigation described in the OP is so minimal that I can't imagine many folk have any issue with it.
jar writes:
Still no idea what your point is if you have one.
My point remains the same:
Straggler writes:
That being moderately educated and over the age of 12 doesn't qualify anyone as a bomb suspect worthy of a visit from 6 agents of the joint terrorist task force.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 1:23 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 2:40 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 168 of 272 (705694)
08-30-2013 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by jar
08-30-2013 2:40 PM


Re: I am over 12 years old and moderately educated...
Who gives a monkeys what they call themselves...?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by jar, posted 08-30-2013 2:40 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 222 of 272 (706304)
09-09-2013 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by jar
09-09-2013 12:18 PM


Re: guilty for being able
On the phone?
quote:
Lawful interception is officially strictly controlled in many countries to safeguard privacy; this is the case in all developed democracies. In theory, telephone tapping often needs to be authorized by a court, and is, again in theory, normally only approved when evidence shows it is not possible to detect criminal or subversive activity in less intrusive ways; often the law and regulations require that the crime investigated must be at least of a certain severity.[3] Illegal or unauthorized telephone tapping is often a criminal offense.
Link
Have you never watched The Wire?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 09-09-2013 12:37 PM Straggler has not replied

  
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