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Author Topic:   Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's dead. The maneuvering begins!
Percy
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Posts: 15391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 91 of 122 (780552)
03-16-2016 1:51 PM


Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
In today's New York Times: Obama Chooses Merrick Garland for Supreme Court

Just announcing the news, haven't read the article yet.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by AZPaul3, posted 03-16-2016 5:57 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(3)
Message 92 of 122 (780563)
03-16-2016 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Percy
03-16-2016 1:51 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
The Senate Republican leadership is abdicating its responsibility to the future congress and will not consider this nomination.

quote:
“I simply ask Republicans in the Senate to give him a fair hearing, and then an up-or-down vote,” Mr. Obama said. “If you don’t, then it will not only be an abdication of the Senate’s constitutional duty, it will indicate a process for nominating and confirming judges that is beyond repair.”

But later in the day the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, called Judge Garland and said that the Senate would not take action on his nomination.

Mr. McConnell also informed Judge Garland that they would not be meeting in person at the Capitol on Thursday.

“Rather than put Judge Garland through more unnecessary political routines orchestrated by the White House, the leader decided it would be more considerate of the nominee’s time to speak with him today by phone,” Mr. McConnell’s spokesman, Don Stewart, said in a statement. “The leader reiterated his position that the American people will have a voice in this vacancy and that the Senate will appropriately revisit the matter when it considers the qualifications of the person the next president nominates. And since the Senate will not be acting on this nomination, he would not be holding a perfunctory meeting, but he wished Judge Garland well.”


This Republican obstructionism of the Nation's judicial function is anathema to the statesmanship that characterized the US Senate for more than 200 years. This is a sad day for the republic and portends even greater malfunction of, indeed malfeasance by, this Nation's most storied deliberative body.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 03-16-2016 1:51 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9181
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 93 of 122 (780583)
03-17-2016 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by AZPaul3
03-16-2016 5:57 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
This Republican obstructionism of the Nation's judicial function is anathema to the statesmanship that characterized the US Senate for more than 200 years. This is a sad day for the republic and portends even greater malfunction of, indeed malfeasance by, this Nation's most storied deliberative body.

Working against Obama is his vote to filibuster Alito. Obama says that he regrets having done so, but Republicans will certainly use his past vote against him.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by AZPaul3, posted 03-16-2016 5:57 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2016 1:27 PM NoNukes has responded
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 94 of 122 (780593)
03-17-2016 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by NoNukes
03-17-2016 12:34 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
Working against Obama is his vote to filibuster Alito.

The Republicans could have had their revenge on Sotomayor and Kagan but they didn't. I don't think Alito has anything to do with the Republican's intransigence here. I think it's just plain broken, incompetent Republican leadership afraid of the right-wingnut faction of their own party.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 96 by Diomedes, posted 03-17-2016 2:12 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9181
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 95 of 122 (780594)
03-17-2016 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by AZPaul3
03-17-2016 1:27 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
don't think Alito has anything to do with the Republican's intransigence here

I agree. The Alito filibuster vote is just ammo to use against Obama. Obama will have to deal with that when he attempts to use his bull pulpit against the senate.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2016 1:27 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 549
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 96 of 122 (780597)
03-17-2016 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by AZPaul3
03-17-2016 1:27 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
I don't think Alito has anything to do with the Republican's intransigence here. I think it's just plain broken, incompetent Republican leadership afraid of the right-wingnut faction of their own party.

Republicans are in a totally lose-lose situation.

If they continue to deny even calling a hearing for this nominee, they appear obstructionist.
If they move forward with a hearing but vote against confirmation, they appear partisan.
If they call a hearing and confirm the nominee, they alienate their base.

They are totally backed in a corner.

Personally, I don't think they are being very forward looking. Obama put forth a moderate candidate in an effort to undo the gridlock. If the Repubs continue to obstruct, that will likely start to galvanize the left in lieu of the upcoming election, since Hillary can beat The Donald or Cruz over the head with this.

If I were the Republicans, I would move forward with a hearing at least. And even still, a confirmation here actually would work out better for them. They must understand at this staqe that the presidential election is all but lost. And they are on the verge of losing the senate. If they continue to placate to their fringe, they risk a scenario whereby the next administration can nominate whomever they like.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5604
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 97 of 122 (780604)
03-17-2016 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by NoNukes
03-17-2016 12:34 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
But Alito was not filibustered was he.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by NoNukes, posted 03-17-2016 12:34 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 98 of 122 (780610)
03-17-2016 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Theodoric
03-17-2016 8:19 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
Yes, he was, but just barely before a cloture vote cut off the filibuster attempt. Despite not having 41 senators formally adopt the filibuster, Obama voting for, the democrats continued to delay the vote on Alito in a de facto filibuster by continuing discussion. Thus the cloture vote.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Theodoric, posted 03-17-2016 8:19 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5604
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 99 of 122 (780620)
03-17-2016 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by AZPaul3
03-17-2016 9:07 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
Maybe you do not understand the whole fillibuster thing. There was no filibuster.
quote:
Some Democratic Senators who opposed the Alito nomination considered using a filibuster option in the attempt to block the nomination. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) said, "The filibuster's on the table." While other Senators warned not to rush to a decision, Dick Durbin (D-IL) said "I don't think we should assume that's going to happen at all." He added, "Ordinarily it takes six to eight weeks to evaluate a Supreme Court nominee. We shouldn't rush to judgment."

At the conclusion of the confirmation hearings, January 12, the threat of a filibuster appeared to grow more remote as Durbin called a filibuster attempt "unlikely". Judiciary Committee member Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) said, "I do not see a likelihood of a filibuster. This might be a man I disagree with, but it doesn't mean he shouldn't be on the court."[13] She changed her position on January 27, saying that she would vote no for cloture.[3] Fellow Judiciary Committee member Joe Biden (D-DE) said, "I think he is going to be confirmed." Other Democrats such as Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Ken Salazar (D-CO), Daniel Akaka (D-HI), and Byron Dorgan (D-ND), however, said they would not support a filibuster, though they all voted against confirmation.[14][15] In addition, Senators Mark Pryor (D-AR), Kent Conrad (D-ND), and Joe Biden (D-DE) indicated that they did not support a filibuster.[4][5] Later, however, Joe Biden announced on the 29th that he would vote no for cloture.

On January 26, while vacationing in Switzerland, Senator John Kerry (D-MA) called for a filibuster to block Alito's nomination.[16] Despite the support of his fellow Massachusetts Senator, Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)[6][7][8] and Harry Reid (D-NV), the top Democrat in the Senate, other Democrats were afraid the measure would backfire and were cautious to support it. Just one day after Kerry's call for a filibuster, Reid further stated that the Democrats did not have the votes needed to sustain a filibuster to block the confirmation of Alito. "We're going to have a vote Tuesday morning," Reid said. "Everyone knows there are not enough votes to support a filibuster."[17][18]

The Democratic Senators from Massachusetts, John Kerry and Ted Kennedy, attempted to gain support for a filibuster of the nominee, however they gained little support even within their own party. The Senate voted for cloture on the nomination 72-25. Three senators didn't vote, including Democrat Tom Harkin and Republican John Ensign, who had been injured in a car accident earlier that day. All of the members of the Gang of Fourteen voted for cloture with the majority.



Now if there was a filibuster the cloture vote would not have passed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/...reme_Court_nomination#Filibuster
Nope, not listed here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/...ecent_filibusters_of_nominations

Did he vote for the attempt to filibuster? Yes. Was there a filibuster? No.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2016 9:07 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 100 of 122 (780622)
03-17-2016 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Theodoric
03-17-2016 10:19 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
I think my updated post crossed paths with your post.

Confusion reigns.

Sorry.


This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3457
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 101 of 122 (780624)
03-17-2016 11:36 PM


The Merrick Garland choice
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/...arland-conservative-reaction

quote:
But Garland was almost certainly not who Senate Republicans were expecting when they drew the hard line soon after Scalia’s death that no Obama nominee would be considered. Just last week, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) -- a member of the Judiciary Committee -- said he didn’t “believe” Obama’s assurances to him that he would nominate a “moderate.”

"[Obama] could easily name Merrick Garland, who is a fine man," Hatch told Newsmax. "He probably won’t do that because this appointment is about the election. So I’m pretty sure he’ll name someone the [liberal Democratic base] wants."

Garland is a 63-year-old straight, white male. He is a moderate, by most standards, with a reputation for playing by the book. His resume has the sterling pedigree one comes to expect from a Supreme Court justice: Ivy League education, clerkship for Justice William Brennan, prosecutor for the Department of Justice and the chief judge on the nation’s most influential appeals court. Even Fox News admitted he is the most conservative Supreme Court nominee put forward by a Democratic president in the modern era.


I've heard the opinion from a couple of sources (don't now have the links, one was on NPR) that having 9 Garlands would be a fine Supreme Court.

I think it is a great choice. Garland probably has at least 10 years in him. And I'm thinking Hillary going to be the next president, and is going to be making more SCOTUS appointments.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 12261
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 102 of 122 (780633)
03-18-2016 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Minnemooseus
03-17-2016 11:36 PM


Re: The Merrick Garland choice
Once the Republicans vowed to set aside precedent in a nakedly partisan move, why wouldn't Obama rub it in by choosing a candidate that they couldn't reasonably object to ? Why give them an excuse for fighting him ? If the appointment is "about the election" why not help the Republicans make themselves look bad ?

Obama has been pretty moderate throughout his terms, so I'd have expected him to go for a moderate anyway - certainly so long as the Republicans run the Senate. But the Republicans just walked into this one.


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 103 of 122 (780634)
03-18-2016 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Diomedes
03-17-2016 2:12 PM


A Game Plan
You read it here first.

The Republicans do nothing pending the results of Nov. 8.

If the Republican nominee wins election then the Senate continues to do nothing until after the new President selects his nominee in January/February. I see as highly unlikely the Republicans winning the Oval Office and losing the Senate at the same time. That's not going to happen so ignore it.

If the Democrats retain the White House then we have some game space.

If the senate is left in Republican hands then the Republicans will move to confirm Garland before the 114th Congress ends on Jan 3, 2017, so they won't have a greater fight on their hands from an equally qualified but less politically palatable nominee by the new President.

If the senate changes to majority Democrat then I expect the Senate Republicans to try to rush a Garland nominee to confirmation before the nomination can be withdrawn and the new Congress comes into session on Jan 3. and the new Democrat senate takes its place.

Here's the ego question: Does Obama withdraw the Garland nomination Nov 9th, leaving Clinton to name her choice? I think if the senate changes party the pressure to do so will be quite strong.


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14174dm
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: 10-12-2015


(2)
Message 104 of 122 (780640)
03-18-2016 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by AZPaul3
03-16-2016 5:57 PM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
Whenever I hear the republicans talk about waiting for the election so the voters can have a voice, I wonder if they really thought it through.

Since this year is an election year, waiting for the voters to speak applies to all positions up for election doesn't it?

So none of the 24 Republican (and 10 Democrat) Senators up for election should vote on anything this year.

The entire House of Representatives should sit out the year since the voters haven't spoken yet.

The President should pocket veto everything anyways since he has to wait for the voters to speak.

We have to wait until after the election AND the new people in office. No lame duck votes.

Hey, this could help the budget. Since we're waiting for the voters to speak and these people are just sitting around, let's stop paying them. Send them & their staffs home.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the voters know that the election results stand for the entire term of office.

What a stupid stupid argument.

Edited by 14174dm, : Trying to convert from rant to discussion


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 105 of 122 (780641)
03-18-2016 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by 14174dm
03-18-2016 9:38 AM


Re: Obama Announces Nomination for Scalia's Replacement
What a stupid stupid argument.

Welcome to the USA!


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 Message 104 by 14174dm, posted 03-18-2016 9:38 AM 14174dm has not yet responded

  
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