Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 82 (8871 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 11-16-2018 5:31 AM
273 online now:
AZPaul3, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat) (3 members, 270 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: paradigm of types
Post Volume:
Total: 842,039 Year: 16,862/29,783 Month: 850/1,956 Week: 353/331 Day: 12/69 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
164165
166
167168
...
175Next
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 17875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2476 of 2611 (839742)
09-14-2018 12:28 PM


Manafort Pleads Guilty
Paul Manafort pleads guilty to conspiracy and obstruction and will cooperate in the Mueller investigation

This is big, that Manafort will cooperate with the Mueller investigation. Manafort was one of the Trump campaign attendees at the Trump Tower meeting with Russian representatives.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Fix grammar.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2492 by 1.61803, posted 09-18-2018 4:20 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5600
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2477 of 2611 (839753)
09-14-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 2475 by Percy
09-13-2018 8:33 AM


Re: Stephen Colbert Interviews Beto O'Rourke
I think he might have a chance.

Living in Austin I feel like I have a distorted view on Texan politics as a whole because it has always been a Blue island in an otherwise sea of Red. Naturally, I see "Beto" signs in just about everyone's front yard. I assumed that, while obviously popular in a liberal city like Austin, what is this guy's popularity in the rest of Texas?

Texas, once defined as the preeminent "Red State," is slowly turning Purple, much like what happened to Florida. Florida is now one of those swing states that on any given day an election could go in either direction. Texas, I think, isn't that far off. Texas has seen a massive influx of residents over the last ten years, many of which are disillusioned Californian democrats.

I, too, think that Beto has a pretty good chance. I think what ultimately will be Ted Cruz's undoing is that the Republican base, largely in part because of Trump, is fractured. Trump utterly destroyed Cruz in the primaries. So now Republicans either legitimately stand with him or can't stand the guy, whether they typically vote Republican or not.

As crazy as this sounds, I actually prefer Trump to Cruz (which is a lot like preferring gonorrhea to syphillis) for one reason only. Trump, for all of his faults, at least has the balls to actually be honest about who and what he is. Ted Cruz, one the other hand, is just the most deplorably underhanded, slimy, quintessential politician who would do anything for power. He acts like a rat, thinks like a rat, and even physically resembles a rat.

And while I certainly am not a Democrat, and while I certainly don't agree with many of Beto's policies, I do agree with many of them and at the very least he is measured, principled, and appears mentally stable and actually competent for the job. If I had to choose one or the other, I would choose Beto.

But, like I always do, I actually vote for candidates that I actually agree with and never choose the lesser of evils. If I find no 3rd Party candidate with better policies, Beto might be the first time I ever voted for a Democrat.

What I do know with certainty... is that Ted Cruz will never get my vote.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2475 by Percy, posted 09-13-2018 8:33 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2478 by Percy, posted 09-14-2018 4:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2478 of 2611 (839759)
09-14-2018 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2477 by Hyroglyphx
09-14-2018 4:01 PM


Re: Stephen Colbert Interviews Beto O'Rourke
Hyroglyphx writes:

Trump, for all of his faults, at least has the balls to actually be honest about who and what he is.

Honest isn't a word most people would associate with Trump. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Trump always speaks his mind without subterfuge, in the sense that he truly believes what he says is true.

Of course, when Trump's claims meet reality he doesn't fare too well. For example, check out In 2007, Trump was forced to face his own falsehoods. And he did, 30 times.

But, like I always do, I actually vote for candidates that I actually agree with and never choose the lesser of evils. If I find no 3rd Party candidate with better policies, Beto might be the first time I ever voted for a Democrat.

I've voted for Democrats and Republicans. I vote for the person I think would exercise the best judgment in office, though these days I have to include an adjustment for how clearly they perceive reality.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2477 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-14-2018 4:01 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2479 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-14-2018 10:24 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1276
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2479 of 2611 (839762)
09-14-2018 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 2478 by Percy
09-14-2018 4:48 PM


Trump could be a "liberal" mole in the GOP
I even got a big liberal Democrat (friend), who HATES Trump, to sort of come around to my arguments.

He found an online video of Trump (1989?) saying that he could pretend to be a racist and get lots of idiot rednecks to support him.

I remember talking about Trump possibly being President way back in the late 80s and early 90s. (mostly because he was so big of a business man).

Trump is on record supporting "open borders" as recently as 2013 and it seemed to be somewhat secretive.

This was AFTER his Birther support (around 2010-12, which everybody, on BOTH the right and left, at the time of his Birther "birth", saw as some thinly veiled bone thrown to a needed anti-immigrant populist group of Republicans that he was somehow trying to get on the good side of).

HOWEVER

I do think that Trump genuinely dislikes lots of left-leaning people personally. He very well might find very many of them to have disgusting character traits. (Perhaps because even white liberals have always only been about 27% supportive of increasing yearly immigration yet constantly attack others as "racist"? I don't know but he does seem to really dislike the left though it might be tough to figure out. I feel he considers everybody savages and that he needs to tear everything apart. But he seems to find many Average Joe conservative types to be not as dislikable as he might - secretly - dislike their anti-immigration views)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2478 by Percy, posted 09-14-2018 4:48 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2480 by DrJones*, posted 09-14-2018 11:24 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1736
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(5)
Message 2480 of 2611 (839766)
09-14-2018 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 2479 by LamarkNewAge
09-14-2018 10:24 PM


Re: Trump could be a "liberal" mole in the GOP
Trump doesn't care about Liberal or Conservative, Trump cares about Trump. He has and will say anything to get people to pay attention to him, its just so happened that this time it lead to him stumbling into the presidency.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2479 by LamarkNewAge, posted 09-14-2018 10:24 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 949
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 2481 of 2611 (839803)
09-16-2018 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2471 by Coragyps
09-09-2018 9:38 PM


When you find any actual evidence of paid left-wing protesters at one of these events, drag it out here for us to see.

quote:
At least some of the protesters who looted, rioted, burned buildings and overturned police cars in Ferguson, Missouri, last year were promised payment of up to $5,000 per month to join the protests.

https://www.newsmax.com/...d-protesters/2015/05/25/id/646587

That is about a different event, and it's from a conservative source that you might not believe, so here's one more from USA Today, hardly a conservative source, and it's about the Kavanaugh hearings.

quote:
Once we knew the hearings were going to happen, we started putting out a call through our networks, and regular folks who know the impact this will have on their lives started raising their hands and saying, 'I’m coming,'" Epps-Addison said. "We’ve had people carpooling and caravanning to get here."

https://www.usatoday.com/...dinated-supreme-court/1201785002

"Putting out calls through networks" - all free and voluntary? Also;

quote:
Rachel O'Leary Carmona, chief operating officer of the Women's March, confirmed that her group had coordinated a plan to disrupt the hearings. That included offering lodging to traveling protesters and "jail and bail support" if necessary.

Lodging? Jail and bail support? How about bus rides? Maybe just a little walking around money? OH NO, that's not possible. They cut it off after lodging and bail. You believe that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2471 by Coragyps, posted 09-09-2018 9:38 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 949
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 2482 of 2611 (839804)
09-16-2018 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2472 by Percy
09-10-2018 12:03 PM


Why would the news media label their own reporting as temper tantrums?

I would expect them to avoid committing something, (to a much larger extent) that they accused their opponents of previously doing.

Yes, this is true, the proceedings were interrupted and impeded by Democratic senators and protesters. What makes you think the protesters were paid?

See my above reply to Coragpys. Would you not consider incentives that the Woman's March people offer to not be "pay"?

Do you have any videos of press anger being displayed during press briefings?

Not that I'm going to take the time to find, but there have been plenty of them. If you don't believe they've ever happened, okay.

Given that there were only three White House press briefings in the month of August, for example, how is it possible for this anger to be displayed (quoting you) "on a daily basis"?

Well they're called "daily press briefings", but I see they're not so daily. They weren't daily with Obama either, but they did happen much more frequently. Josh Earnest undoubtedly enjoyed the love-fests. I don't know why Trump allows them at all now, their purpose should be to inform the news media, and therefore the people, about what's actually going on. They're useless now, just attack shows.

No one is asserting that the belief that the press is the "enemy of the people" is unique to Trump and his cronies and followers. Dictators and authoritarian rulers have denounced, shut down and put the press under state control since there was a press and long before Trump.

But not in the U.S. Trump is not advocating shutting down, or state control of the press. He has a free speech right to call them on what they do.

Thomas Jefferson wrote, "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost," and when he referred to "our liberty" he meant everyone's liberty, not just those of a particular political party.

I don't think he'd be crazy about a press that is so politically one-sided that it advocates "erecting a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers (EPA agents and global warming advocates)to harass our people, and eat out their substance." Or for advocating "suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever." Nothing is safe from the global warming hoax.

marc9000 writes:

Yet the paid protestors at his hearing are far more numerous and disruptive than ever before.

How much are you being paid to lie about this?

quote:
Within minutes of the start of Tuesday’s hearing, several protesters stood up in the back of the room and started yelling, interrupting Grassley’s opening remarks. Additional protests carried on throughout the day’s proceedings. (RELATED: Protesters Immediately Interrupt Second Day Of Kavanaugh Hearing)

While no one knows what will happen the rest of the week, Texas Republican Sen. John Cornyn summed up the first day by saying, “this is the first confirmation hearing for a Supreme Court Justice that I’ve seen, basically, according to mob rule.”


https://dailycaller.com/.../05/dems-protests-brett-kavanaugh

So you can name a previous Supreme Court hearing that was more disrupted than this one? You're more informed than John Cornyn?

I'm unable to parse this as saying anything other than something absurd. You just said that someone rich could offer a prize to the first news outlet to initiate a Trump removal from office. How would a news outlet do that exactly?

Here's a hint, FAKE NEWS. 91% negative coverage of an administration that has presided over a 4% GDP growth.

How can you "have no more to say" when you never had anything to say in the first place?

I pointed out the ~Trump "crossed a lot of lines"~ fake news in an earlier message. 91% negative coverage - the bias in the news against Trump is a simple fact. I have no more to say about it, to someone who denies the obvious.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2472 by Percy, posted 09-10-2018 12:03 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2486 by Percy, posted 09-16-2018 5:07 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 949
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2483 of 2611 (839806)
09-16-2018 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2473 by caffeine
09-10-2018 12:44 PM


Why on earth would anyone care about the citizenship of a journalist?

Because it would increase the likelihood that a non-citizen might have an interest in reporting in such a way that is not in the country's best interest.

As I said, Jennings received very little prominent criticism for that comment. A hater of the U.S. from outside the U.S. can give ideas to U.S. citizens who also hate how the U.S. is structured, those U.S. citizens who are willing to sacrifice peace, law and order, to restructure the U.S. into something they fantasize would work better, like socialism.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2473 by caffeine, posted 09-10-2018 12:44 PM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2484 by Phat, posted 09-16-2018 3:49 PM marc9000 has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11416
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2484 of 2611 (839808)
09-16-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2483 by marc9000
09-16-2018 3:34 PM


Reflection
Is there a global conspiracy against our bastion of freedom? Must socialism be evil? Must globalism be any worse than nationalism? Is it really us against the world?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2483 by marc9000, posted 09-16-2018 3:34 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2485 by marc9000, posted 09-16-2018 4:59 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 949
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2485 of 2611 (839819)
09-16-2018 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2484 by Phat
09-16-2018 3:49 PM


Re: Reflection
Is there a global conspiracy against our bastion of freedom? Must socialism be evil? Must globalism be any worse than nationalism? Is it really us against the world?

More relevant questions might be; "Did a 70 year old billionaire become president only for selfish gain? Does Trump "not perceive reality"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2484 by Phat, posted 09-16-2018 3:49 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2487 by ringo, posted 09-17-2018 12:15 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 2486 of 2611 (839820)
09-16-2018 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2482 by marc9000
09-16-2018 3:27 PM


marc9000 writes:

Why would the news media label their own reporting as temper tantrums?

I would expect them to avoid committing something, (to a much larger extent) that they accused their opponents of previously doing.

You provide no evidence of these temper tantrums and are probably just making stuff up again.

Yes, this is true, the proceedings were interrupted and impeded by Democratic senators and protesters. What makes you think the protesters were paid?

See my above reply to Coragpys. Would you not consider incentives that the Woman's March people offer to not be "pay"?

You said the Kavanaugh protesters were paid. Now you're changing the subject. What is your evidence that the Kavanaugh protesters were paid? What is your evidence that participants in the 2017 Woman's March were paid?

Do you have any videos of press anger being displayed during press briefings?

Not that I'm going to take the time to find, but there have been plenty of them. If you don't believe they've ever happened, okay.

I know of only one, when Jim Acosta walked out of the White House press briefing when Sarah Sanders refused to acknowledge that the press is not the enemy of the people and then launched into an attack on Acosta and the press. If you can't provide any evidence of your claim then I assume it is just one more thing you've made up.

Given that there were only three White House press briefings in the month of August, for example, how is it possible for this anger to be displayed (quoting you) "on a daily basis"?

Well they're called "daily press briefings", but I see they're not so daily. They weren't daily with Obama either, but they did happen much more frequently. Josh Earnest undoubtedly enjoyed the love-fests. I don't know why Trump allows them at all now, their purpose should be to inform the news media, and therefore the people, about what's actually going on. They're useless now, just attack shows.

In other words, your claim that anger is displayed by the press at the White House press briefings on a daily basis is just one more thing you've made up.

No one is asserting that the belief that the press is the "enemy of the people" is unique to Trump and his cronies and followers. Dictators and authoritarian rulers have denounced, shut down and put the press under state control since there was a press and long before Trump.

But not in the U.S. Trump is not advocating shutting down, or state control of the press. He has a free speech right to call them on what they do.

On October 17, 2017, Trump tweeted:

quote:
With all of the Fake News coming out of NBC and the Networks, at what point is it appropriate to challenge their License? Bad for country!

So Trump has actually advocated shutting down the press.

Thomas Jefferson wrote, "Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost," and when he referred to "our liberty" he meant everyone's liberty, not just those of a particular political party.

I don't think he'd be crazy about a press that is so politically one-sided that it advocates "erecting a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers (EPA agents and global warming advocates) to harass our people, and eat out their substance."

Where has the mainstream press ever advocated this complaint from the Declaration of Independence? Wouldn't any writing engaging in such advocacy be in an editorial, not in the news?

Or for advocating "suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever."

Where has the mainstream press ever advocated this complaint from the Declaration of Independence?

Nothing is safe from the global warming hoax.

You're not only having trouble mustering evidence for your silly claims, you can't even stay on topic.

marc9000 writes:

Yet the paid protestors at his hearing are far more numerous and disruptive than ever before.

How much are you being paid to lie about this?

quote:
Within minutes of the start of Tuesday’s hearing, several protesters stood up in the back of the room and started yelling, interrupting Grassley’s opening remarks. Additional protests carried on throughout the day’s proceedings. (RELATED: Protesters Immediately Interrupt Second Day Of Kavanaugh Hearing)

While no one knows what will happen the rest of the week, Texas Republican Sen. John Cornyn summed up the first day by saying, “this is the first confirmation hearing for a Supreme Court Justice that I’ve seen, basically, according to mob rule.”


https://dailycaller.com/.../05/dems-protests-brett-kavanaugh

So you can name a previous Supreme Court hearing that was more disrupted than this one? You're more informed than John Cornyn?

That there were protesters is part of the public record. No one would dispute that. I was referring to your claim that the protesters were paid. Do you have evidence that the protesters were paid or are you making things up again?

I'm unable to parse this as saying anything other than something absurd. You just said that someone rich could offer a prize to the first news outlet to initiate a Trump removal from office. How would a news outlet do that exactly?

Here's a hint, FAKE NEWS. 91% negative coverage of an administration that has presided over a 4% GDP growth.

You still haven't explained how it makes any sense to claim that news outlets could initiate Trump's removal from office. If you have a problem with Trump's negative coverage I suggest you encourage him to stop plumbing the depths of how much worse than the worst president in history he can be, to stop engaging in pathological lying, to bring the chaos in his White House to a halt, and to stop hiring the worst and the dullest into his administration.

How can you "have no more to say" when you never had anything to say in the first place?

I pointed out the ~Trump "crossed a lot of lines"~ fake news in an earlier message.

I meant you had nothing to say of any substance. You're just throwing out baseless accusations in bunches.

91% negative coverage - the bias in the news against Trump is a simple fact. I have no more to say about it, to someone who denies the obvious.

Your "91% negative coverage" claim comes from the conservative Media Research Center (MRC). Most news reporting about Trump merely relates what he did or said, and if MRC wants to interpret what Trump does or says as negative then so be it.

Anyway, how does one report positively on things like plea bargains and guilty verdicts and denying Hurricane Maria fatalities in Puerto Rico and constantly attacking everyone on Twitter and denigrating American institutions and lying about the Trump Tower meeting and lying about the Stormy Daniels payoff and just lying and lying and lying. His own attorney John Dowd couldn't even get him to stop lying during a mock interview in preparation for an interview with Mueller's team.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2482 by marc9000, posted 09-16-2018 3:27 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15577
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(2)
Message 2487 of 2611 (839865)
09-17-2018 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2485 by marc9000
09-16-2018 4:59 PM


Re: Reflection
marc9000 writes:

Did a 70 year old billionaire become president only for selfish gain?


Yes.

marc9000 writes:

Does Trump "not perceive reality"


No.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2485 by marc9000, posted 09-16-2018 4:59 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2488 by Phat, posted 09-17-2018 2:12 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11416
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2488 of 2611 (839869)
09-17-2018 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2487 by ringo
09-17-2018 12:15 PM


Re: Reflection
Aside from fanning the flames of his ego, Trump understands reality as he imagines it needs to be. He realizes that not everybody in this world is going to make it...that only the strong survive. He likely sees his heirs and the strongest of the blue collar base making it while the weaker liberals and socialists fall away. His American Dream is basically survival of the fittest.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2487 by ringo, posted 09-17-2018 12:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2489 by ringo, posted 09-18-2018 11:37 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 2490 by jar, posted 09-18-2018 1:28 PM Phat has responded
 Message 2493 by Taq, posted 09-18-2018 4:34 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15577
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(6)
Message 2489 of 2611 (839901)
09-18-2018 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 2488 by Phat
09-17-2018 2:12 PM


Re: Reflection
Phat writes:

He likely sees his heirs and the strongest of the blue collar base making it while the weaker liberals and socialists fall away. His American Dream is basically survival of the fittest.


That's a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution. The "fittest" doesn't mean the ones with the biggest guns. We evolved as a social species because we are stronger as a group. The liberals and socialists understand that. Holing up in a fortified compound to fight society is not the best strategy for survival.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2488 by Phat, posted 09-17-2018 2:12 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 2490 of 2611 (839912)
09-18-2018 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2488 by Phat
09-17-2018 2:12 PM


Re: Reflection
Fit for "what", Phat?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2488 by Phat, posted 09-17-2018 2:12 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2491 by Phat, posted 09-18-2018 2:23 PM jar has responded

  
RewPrev1
...
164165
166
167168
...
175Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018