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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10695
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 106 of 231 (828788)
02-24-2018 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
02-24-2018 4:12 AM


RE: No Match for Assault Rifles
I would not entrust my kids to untrained armed teachers trying to "protect" them and engage a domestic terrorist without body armor and a pistol. Who's paying for the firearms? What if the domestic terrorist has grenades or improvised explosives?

This plan is insane. How is it better than keeping guns out of the school? How many superbly trained teachers with guns would it take to provide a deterrent so off-putting that a student would think they could not kill a dozen students without getting shot? And how much of this fortification are we planning to do in areas other than schools?

Are Republicans buying this?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 02-24-2018 4:12 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17337
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 107 of 231 (828789)
02-24-2018 7:18 AM


And...Teacher Gun Accidents Already a Fact
That arming teachers is a bad idea was already obvious. Here's a news report from CBS News from a few years ago: Idaho State University teacher accidentally shootsl self in class

quote:
POCATELLO, Idaho -- An Idaho State University instructor was wounded in the foot after a concealed handgun in the person's pocket discharged during a chemistry lab session with students in the room, school officials said.

In related news, the Ohio 7th grader who shot himself in a school bathroom a few days ago has died: Ohio 7th grader dies after shooting himself on middle school campus. It is not known how he got the weapon (a .22 long gun) into the school or whether the shooting was accidental.

--Percy


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 108 of 231 (828811)
02-24-2018 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Phat
02-24-2018 4:12 AM


RE: No Match for Assault Rifles
What if the domestic terrorist has grenades or improvised explosives? How are untrained armed teachers prepared to handle that along with going against high powered weapons?
It also seems to me that arming teachers would merely become a challenge for a disturbed mind...sorta like "next level" opponents in an RPG. I predict that the violence in schools would only escalate. Having a "them vs us" mentality would encourage more shootings, in my opinion. Instead of death by cop, we would have death by teacher...unless the disturbed individual was an ROTC marksman and happened to win the confrontation.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 02-24-2018 4:12 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 109 of 231 (828827)
02-25-2018 12:33 AM


Arm the teachers
So what we're telling teachers is that they need to be prepared to kill their students.

Of course, in their attempt to get "the bad one," they'll likely miss and may hit "the good one," so you better be sure you're OK with killing any of them.

But, that's the price we have to pay to "stop the bad guy." There's no other possible solution. You have to be ready to kill your students.

Oh, and students? You need to be prepared to die at the hands of your teacher. They didn't mean it. They were gunning for "the bad one" and missed. You should be proud to be killed.

Because it's the way your teachers show they care about you.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14641
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 110 of 231 (828859)
02-25-2018 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
02-24-2018 2:51 PM


RE: No Match for Assault Rifles
Phat writes:

Having a "them vs us" mentality would encourage more shootings, in my opinion.


And a lot more confrontations that didn't even involve armed students. Imagine a frustrated teacher drawing his Colt 1911 and yelling, "I said, SIT DOWN!"

Kindergarten teaches us how to get along with our fellow citizens. High school is supposed to teach us how to think and discuss things rationally. Trump wants to emphasize the worst aspect of human nature and teach children to solve their problems by shooting it out. We might just as well close the schools entirely.


An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 02-24-2018 2:51 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17337
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 111 of 231 (828870)
02-25-2018 5:16 PM


Add Libraries to the List of Unsafe/Unsecured/Unhardened Places
Yesterday a man entered a Winchester, Massachusetts, library with a 10-inch hunting knife and murdered a patron leaning over a book at a reading table. He was quickly restrained by other patrons, but what if he had had an AR-15? So libraries aren't safe, either, and the NRA and Trump should be preparing to arm librarians.

Source: Library Stabbing

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by NoNukes, posted 02-25-2018 10:42 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10695
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(3)
Message 112 of 231 (828877)
02-25-2018 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Percy
02-25-2018 5:16 PM


How bad is this idea?
Yesterday a man entered a Winchester, Massachusetts, library with a 10-inch hunting knife and murdered a patron leaning over a book at a reading table.

I understand that folks believe that keeping guns at home makes their family safer. I think that understanding is wrong, but the current interpretation of the 2nd amendment means that folks get to conduct that ridiculous experiment in their own homes and with their own families.

Okay, that's fine. But now they want to export that same madness to everyone else's school. That means that we are no longer talking about the government interfering unconstitutionally in a personal choice. What is being discussed instead is having the state government subject the rest of us to some BS experiment whose outcome we already know based on statistics.

That, in my opinion, is insane. Yeah, you are stupid enough to keep a bunch of guns around your children at home. Fine, raise your children as you see fit. But you don't get to be stupid enough to do that to everyone else's kids.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 02-25-2018 5:16 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by dwise1, posted 02-26-2018 3:29 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 114 by dwise1, posted 02-26-2018 3:40 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3160
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 113 of 231 (828878)
02-26-2018 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by NoNukes
02-25-2018 10:42 PM


Re: How bad is this idea?
I dunno.

Some several months ago, upwards to over a year ago, in the midst of all kinds of political insanity, some USA state with some kinds of insane open-carry laws played host to some kind of insane right-wing political rally.

I remember the standard sick joke of mixing all kinds of toxic factors that must inevitably result in complete and utter disaster, to which you casually remark, "What could possibly go wrong?"

And yet, surprisingly, complete and utter insane mayhem did not happen.

Personally, I think that they were behaving themselves only because they knew we were watching.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by NoNukes, posted 02-25-2018 10:42 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3160
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 114 of 231 (828879)
02-26-2018 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by NoNukes
02-25-2018 10:42 PM


Re: How bad is this idea?
Personally. Our teenage son was interested in weaponry. At a local sports shop, an Enfield rifle was available. My then-wife, my son's own mother, gave me a direct order to buy MY OWN SON that weapon. I directly refused that order, since introducing such a weapon into my family could only serve to endanger my family. What happened? Her indifference to my concerns resulted in my son killing himself with that very weapon she had placed in her own hands.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by NoNukes, posted 02-25-2018 10:42 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 02-26-2018 10:50 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 115 of 231 (828883)
02-26-2018 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by dwise1
02-26-2018 3:40 AM


Re: How bad is this idea?
I'm so sorry to hear this personal anecdote from you. I applaud your courage at bringing it up, however. Because whenever guns kill or hurt people, the debate becomes personal. When tragedy after tragedy unfolds, there are victims. And families of victims. And for each and every family member affected by these events, the debate becomes very personal. Yes, we could theoretically (though I doubt actually) eliminate guns and we would still have knives. And hammers. And box cutters. And articles on how to make fertilizer bombs.

Killing oneself or others would still be possible.

Perhaps, however, it wouldn't happen so fast nor so often.

And this is the heart of the pro-gun control issue.

And you brought up one key issue. Indifference to concerns.

The pro-gun control side wants the other side to consider being empathetic. Assuming that we all are one human family, it is our collective responsibility to protect ourselves from potential harm.

This supersedes our freedom to own weapons that could cause harm.

Edited by Phat, : added point

Edited by Phat, : further explanation


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by dwise1, posted 02-26-2018 3:40 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 178
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


(1)
Message 116 of 231 (828890)
02-26-2018 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
02-23-2018 6:27 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
gOD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU AND MAKE HIS FACE TO SHINE UPON YOU AND GIVE YOU PEACE.

You should capitalize the first letter of the word "God." It's disrespectful not to.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 02-23-2018 6:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 178
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 117 of 231 (828891)
02-26-2018 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
02-23-2018 6:27 PM


Re: 17 Dead at Florida High School
Double post...

Edited by Aussie, : No reason given.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 02-23-2018 6:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10695
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 118 of 231 (828898)
02-26-2018 5:30 PM


Presidential Bravery on display.
Because talk is cheap, and picking at the failures of others is easy, Trump, the second most presidential American to ever walk the face of the earth let this one fly today:

quote:
President Donald Trump said Monday he would have stormed into the Florida high school to stop the gunman perpetrating the nation's latest mass shooting "even if I didn't have a weapon" as he lambasted the inaction of a sheriff's deputy assigned to the school.

"You don't know until you test it, but I think, I really believe I'd run in there, even if I didn't have a weapon, and I think most of the people in this room would have done that too," Trump told a gathering of US governors at the White House.


Need a link. Pick your favorite source:

https://www.cnn.com/...da-school-without-a-weapon/index.html
http://insider.foxnews.com/...-i-really-believe-id-run-there
https://www.usatoday.com/...ooter-even-without-gun/372792002

Most of those links have the video of Trump saying exactly what I quoted above, so hopefully, the idea that this is fake news, or that I took it out of context isn't a viable response.

Meanwhile, 86% of Republicans are happy about this kind of behavior with something like 60% of them saying that they strongly approve. How is that? The question is not whether this kind of crap is better than Hillary. You guys actually like this stuff.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Taq, posted 02-26-2018 5:54 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7433
Joined: 03-06-2009


(3)
Message 119 of 231 (828899)
02-26-2018 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by NoNukes
02-26-2018 5:30 PM


Re: Presidential Bravery on display.
NoNukes writes:

Because talk is cheap, and picking at the failures of others is easy, Trump, the second most presidential American to ever walk the face of the earth let this one fly today:

I guess he forgot about the one time when his country actually asked him to do just that and he said he couldn't because of bone spurs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by NoNukes, posted 02-26-2018 5:30 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by RAZD, posted 02-27-2018 11:38 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1681
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(5)
Message 120 of 231 (828900)
02-26-2018 6:00 PM


Andy Borowitz, 2-25-18
"Stopping gun violence by putting guns in the classroom makes as much sense as stopping stupidity by putting an idiot in the White House." Andy Borowitz, 2-25-18

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


    
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