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Author Topic:   REMIX: Who Can Be Saved?
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 76 of 111 (839273)
09-05-2018 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
09-05-2018 5:42 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
I believe I said the Romans quote was presented as history, a straight statement about the man who disobeyed and the man who obeyed. Two real men.

However if you want to push me I'll say the account in Genesis is also presented as history, because it is.

Just because you believe it's impossible doesn't give you a right to force your view on me as the truth to which I am to bow.

AND it's science that says it's all impossible that is the fairy tale. Sorrry.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 09-05-2018 5:42 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 09-05-2018 5:56 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30837
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 77 of 111 (839274)
09-05-2018 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
09-05-2018 5:42 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
ringo writes:

Faith writes:

The man is a man and the story in Eden is historical.


The other problem with that is that there was never a time in history when there was only one man and one woman. It's biologically impossible. Therefore, it's another miracle or another metaphor or another fairy tale.

Or a "Just So" story that was meant to explain why people fear snakes, why we had to farm instead of being hunter/gatherers, why childbirth seemed more painful for humans than other animals, why we wear clothes unlike any other animal, why we have a society based on rules and consequences and most importantly why women must be subject to and inferior to men.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 09-05-2018 5:42 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 78 of 111 (839275)
09-05-2018 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Faith
09-05-2018 5:50 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

However if you want to push me I'll say the account in Genesis is also presented as history, because it is.


Clearly it isn't. There are no talking snakes in history. There is no reasoning at all behind your empty claim.

Faith writes:

Just because you believe it's impossible doesn't give you a right to force your view on me as the truth to which I am to bow.


I'm not forcing anything on you. I'm pointing out your errors. Anybody else who's capable of reading can see that you're wrong.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 5:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 6:09 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 79 of 111 (839276)
09-05-2018 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ringo
09-05-2018 5:56 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
The snake talked. Get over it.

And this is all just a ridiculous distraction from the gospel fact I was trying to present. Adam the first man brought sin into the world, while Jesus the last man paid our sin debt so we can be restored to God's favor. Paul believed the Genesis account, so did Jesus, so did all who wrote books of the Bible, so do all believers in Christ.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 09-05-2018 5:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 09-05-2018 6:18 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 80 of 111 (839277)
09-05-2018 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
09-05-2018 6:09 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

The snake talked. Get over it.


I know the snake talked. So did the Three Bears. It's a clue.

Faith writes:

Adam the first man brought sin into the world, while Jesus the last man paid our sin debt so we can be restored to God's favor.


Yes, that's a literary point being made. It's not a fact and it's not history.

Faith writes:

Paul believed the Genesis account, so did Jesus, so did all who wrote books of the Bible, so do all believers in Christ.


I know you believe they believed it. That has no bearing on whether or not it's true.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 6:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 6:43 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 81 of 111 (839278)
09-05-2018 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ringo
09-05-2018 6:18 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
The....Snake....TALKED. Really really truly TALKED. It is history, not fiction.

Adam brought on the Fall from which we've suffered ever since. It's a reality, not a literary point. Jesus died on a real cross and bled real blood and died a real death from which He rose to real life, to save us from the real sin a real Adam brought into the real world.

Sorry your imagination is so cramped you can't recognize real reality.

And yes it's true that Jesus believed Genesis to be true truth and real reality, as did everybody else I mentioned.

What iis SO difficult about the idea of a supernatural reality anyway?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 09-05-2018 6:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 09-06-2018 11:43 AM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 82 of 111 (839314)
09-06-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
09-05-2018 6:43 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

The....Snake....TALKED. Really really truly TALKED. It is history, not fiction.


I know the snake talked. That's how we know it's fiction, the same as the three talking bears are fiction. If you know of any history that has talking animals, feel free to give examples.

Faith writes:

Sorry your imagination is so cramped you can't recognize real reality.


It isn't that my imagination is cramped. It's that I don't use my imagination to understand reality. I use evidence. Imagination is for watching Star Wars.

The evidence is that there never was a time when there was only one man and one woman. The evidence is that people have always suffered - there was no magic moment when it began.

Faith writes:

And yes it's true that Jesus believed Genesis to be true truth and real reality....


If He did, He was wrong.

Faith writes:

What iis SO difficult about the idea of a supernatural reality anyway?


I didn't say anything about supernatural reality. I'm talking about real reality, evidenced reality. If there is such a thing as supernatural reality, it isn't history.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 6:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by frako, posted 09-06-2018 2:31 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 6:33 PM ringo has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 83 of 111 (839318)
09-06-2018 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by ringo
09-06-2018 11:43 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
I know the snake talked. That's how we know it's fiction, the same as the three talking bears are fiction. If you know of any history that has talking animals, feel free to give examples.

Could be that snakes could talk back in the day when they where still walking. Thing is god only mentions cursing them to slither on their belly, not, not being able to talk ever again. Or it happened off screen and a parrot flew to god to tell him what the snake was doing so parrots got the talking ability from the snake.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 09-06-2018 11:43 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 4:18 PM frako has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 84 of 111 (839335)
09-06-2018 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by frako
09-06-2018 2:31 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Only ONE snake/serpent talked ever, that I know of, and it must have been a supernatural event of some sort, though I suppose it could have been a common enough phenomenon since Eve didn't freak out at it. It is just nonsense to claim the Bible says that "snakes" talk since it was that one and only time that a snake talked, and at the other end of the Bible it is revealed that the snake was in fact Satan, a fallen angel, and they DO talk.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by frako, posted 09-06-2018 2:31 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by frako, posted 09-06-2018 5:02 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 86 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 5:10 PM Faith has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 85 of 111 (839337)
09-06-2018 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
09-06-2018 4:18 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Um so if the snake was Satan, why are actual snakes cursed to slither on their belly all their days. Or is Satan slithering on his belly in hell and the snakes are just where god got his idea for a punishment.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 4:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5344
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 86 of 111 (839339)
09-06-2018 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
09-06-2018 4:18 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Well, except that neither fallen nor upright angels are any more “real” than Angus Dumbledore or Aureliano Buendia. Fiction is fiction.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 4:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 6:15 PM Coragyps has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 87 of 111 (839341)
09-06-2018 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Coragyps
09-06-2018 5:10 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Well, except that neither fallen nor upright angels are any more “real” than Angus Dumbledore or Aureliano Buendia. Fiction is fiction.

I know you're going to feel really bad when you recognize how wrong you've been about this, wish you could recognize it when it might still do you some good.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 5:10 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 6:54 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 88 of 111 (839343)
09-06-2018 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by ringo
09-06-2018 11:43 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
If there is such a thing as supernatural reality, it isn't history.

What utter nonsense. If Jesus is both man and God who died and came back to life that is supernatural and it is history.

The miracles of the Bible are all supernatural realities that occurred in history.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 09-06-2018 11:43 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 09-06-2018 6:42 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 89 of 111 (839344)
09-06-2018 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
09-06-2018 6:33 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

If Jesus is both man and God who died and came back to life that is supernatural and it is history.


There's no historical reason to think it happened, so it ain't history.

Faith writes:

The miracles of the Bible are all supernatural realities that occurred in history.


Supernatural and history are pretty much mutually exclusive. History pretty much has to be natural, with evidence. That's how we distinguish it from myth.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 6:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5344
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 90 of 111 (839345)
09-06-2018 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
09-06-2018 6:15 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith, when I die the electrical activity in my brain will cease. The voltages will all go to zero. It’ll be all over for Coragyps. And I won’t be feeling bad, or good, or feeling anything at all. You are more than welcome to disagree with that, and I know that you do disagree. But that doesn’t make my view incorrect.

Living as justly as possible right here is plenty enough for me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 6:15 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 8:11 PM Coragyps has responded
 Message 94 by frako, posted 09-07-2018 5:46 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
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