Creator of God, Big Bang

Seems to me the idea of the Big Bang is quite consistent with the Bible. The idea the Big Bang occurred without any cause at all, however, is not. Nor is it consistent with the science, imo. You don't get something, at least physical somethings, from nothing.God, however, is not physical but spiritual, and probably more to the point, the idea of asking what came from something implies time exists as governing over the process whereas time is something God created, not something God is subject to.

The problem with thinking asking where did matter and the universe come from is analogous to asking where God came from is that it contains an assumption and an incorrect one, namely that God is temporal and limited by time.The idea of God Christians are generally espousing is one of a God who is present at all points in time and all of space-time, and yet also exists in a timeless, eternal state. Try then to consider this concept and divorce your mind from thinking of God as something like a rock or human being or whatever subject to time.Oddly, one interesting way to help think about this aspect of God was presented in the scifi Star Trek series of Deep Space 9. They didn't talk about God per se but some oracles that existed within a wormhole that were not linear in their existence. If you saw the show when that occured, you'd know what I am talking about. But regardless, the show indicates it's possible to imagine existence that is not linear time-wise.With God, it's a bit more complicated in that He both lives outside of time and within it, as temporal in the sense as part of space-time and eternal and transcendant as outside of it. He bridges all the gaps.Once you realize that time is a creation as part of space-time, it's a little easier to realize the question what is before God is nonsensical because there is no "before" outside of God's creation.Edited by randman, : No reason given.

Why is that a difficult concept for you? I think it is because you are judging the concept of God like you would the concept of the material universe, but these are different things. Frankly, I think the idea of special pleading sounds a bit naive, but maybe you can break it down for me. Since the concept of God is very different from the concept of the material universe, shouldn't we judge the concept of God based on it's own merits instead of creating a straw man argument that judges God as if God is a material Being? And why is that you reckon? Could it because the concept of the universe contains time as integral to it and the concept of God does not?Did that occur to you? Exactly, time is integral to the universe. We also have evidence for the Big Bang, pretty much fitting what the Bible says to a tee.In terms of evidence for God, we know information and design stem from intelligence. Unless you are arguing the material world possesses it's own consciousness, mind and intelligence, I cannot see how you can rationally deny the existence of God.

Well, they are different concepts. One deals with something, the universe, posited to be subject to time or rather time is integral to it, and another posited to not be subject to time and having created it.To insist that we assess God as if subject to time is absurd and illogical. You can call that special pleading, but it's no more special pleading than not considering gravity when discussing the theology of the Godhead or something. God or the idea presented of God isn't physical so why should we impute physical properties to Him? Genesis doesn't posit "creation ex nihilo" in the Big Bang either, not in the way you are thinking of it, at least. The Bible talks of creating everything from and through the Logos (the Word).

Please back this up. Start with defining matter in terms of quantum physics so we can agree on terms. For example, are you saying the physical properties of matter cannot be created, nor destroyed, and what does that mean? The physical part of particles (matter) is created via observation in the sense it collapses to a specific state from a state without any definite location within space and time.Please show how you know the singularity exists. Interesting btw, that God is a singularity, and you say we know a singularity exists but somehow the idea of God cannot be validated....hmmmm

Or another way to say it is the universe does not exist at some point or exists simply by virtue of it being created or perhaps more accurately, the universe exists and came into existence from the Logos. Considering the Logos is independent of time, it's not so far off to say that there is no point in time the universe did not exist. There is simply a Person and Thing by which the universe exists and was created. The Logos itself exists apart from space-time as well as giving rise to and existing within space-time. However, it's existence is not dependant on space-time.

Sure to a degree. As Paul said: Imo, there is both an immanent aspect of God which indeed sustains the existence of every thing, and there is a transcendant aspect of God as well.

We agree on that.

Page Not Found | Penguin Random House

I gotta get some sleep too. I am not sure on Hawking but just quoting what I read. Edited by randman, : No reason given.

How did you arrive at that conclusion because I clearly never suggested that?

Your example doesn't show that. Salt obeys a design principle which is directional. Moreover, there is every reason to think the origin of information and design stems from intelligence.