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Author
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Topic: Creator of God, Big Bang
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 29 of 162 (451514)
01-27-2008 10:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by Rahvin
01-27-2008 8:50 PM
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Re: it is satisfying, just hard to grasp
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Again, this is special pleading. The Universe could not possibly have always existed, but your god can? Even the Big Bang does not suggest that there was a point "before" the Universe existed - only that it existed as the Singularity at the beginning of the expansion we now see. Now who is claiming special pleading. You are saying I must believe the singularity came from an absence of anything and you don't call that special pleading? God is just as believable. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2008 8:50 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2008 10:36 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 31 of 162 (451528)
01-27-2008 10:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Rahvin
01-27-2008 10:36 PM
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Re: it is satisfying, just hard to grasp
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: We know that the Singularity existed, Could you site your references for this statement. Everytime I have ever asked the question where the singularity came from I always get best answer "We do not know". So I would appreciate the appropiate information. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2008 10:36 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 34 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2008 11:39 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 36 of 162 (451550)
01-28-2008 12:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 34 by Rahvin
01-27-2008 11:39 PM
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Re: it is satisfying, just hard to grasp
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: The Singularity does not, however, imply that the Universe did not exist at some point, Make up your mind. The big bang theory supposedly proved the universe had a beginning. Now you are saying it never had a beginning.
Rahvin writes: the Singularity is simply the state of the Universe as it began expanding. If there was no space. If there was no time. If there was no energy. If there was no matter. That sounds like an absence of anything to me. Therefore there was no singularity.
At the instant of the Big Bang, the universe was infinitely dense and unimaginably hot. Cosmologists believe that all forms of matter and energy, as well as space and time itself, were formed at this instant. Since "before" is a temporal concept, one cannot ask what came before the Big Bang and therefore "caused" it, at least not within the context of any known physics.
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/...a/Cosmos/InTheBeginning.html Please compare: Cosmologists believe.............Creationist believe Could you please explain the difference? BTW I am asking for the second time for your source for your statement: "We know that the Singularity existed," Message 30 You telling me to read all the papers on the big bang is not sufficient. What if I read one and brought it up that proves singularity could not have happened, would you believe it if it was written by a very reputable scientist? Who would happen to be an atheist.
Rahvin writes: We know it existed by extrapolating the expansion of the Universe backwards. All that proves is that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth as claimed in Genesis 1:1. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2008 11:39 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 45 by Rahvin, posted 01-28-2008 9:37 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 43 of 162 (451601)
01-28-2008 3:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 42 by randman
01-28-2008 2:30 AM
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Re: Tipler says the Singularity is God
Hi randman, Are you sure about what Tipler said: "Stephen Hawking proved mathematically that the Singularity is not in time or in space, but outside both." I thought Dr. Hawking proved singularity could not have been the source of the big bang. I will try and find where Tipler got his information. If you know please pass it along that way I won't waste time looking for it. Sleep time now, Have fun.
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by randman, posted 01-28-2008 2:30 AM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 44 by randman, posted 01-28-2008 3:11 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 50 of 162 (451653)
01-28-2008 10:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by Rahvin
01-28-2008 9:37 AM
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Re: it is satisfying, just hard to grasp
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Look, this is getting way off-topic for this thread. If you'd like to discuss the Big Bang, start a new thread in the science forums. This isn't the place. In the OP Dr Evolution said:
Dr Evolution writes: My question is who created God, or how did God come about? Now I know the answer is he wasn't created, he has always been there.. He ask a question and gave the answer. There is nothing here to debate. The question is answered.
Dr Evp;itopm writes: Creationists can only say that is what we are told and believe. Evolutionists can only say upon studying it, we think that this is what happened. What is the "it" he is talking about?
Dr Evolution writes: "How can you get something out of nothing?" and "where did matter come from?" .. "there has to be something out there..." This is the "it" he is talking about. Now can we discuss his "it" or is this my last post in this thread? Do we need clarification from a moderator or admin? Have fun now,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by Rahvin, posted 01-28-2008 9:37 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by Rahvin, posted 01-28-2008 11:30 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 102 of 162 (452269)
01-29-2008 10:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by tesla
01-29-2008 8:13 PM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi tesla, I have read quite a bit about your laws are you trying to say:
Colo 1:16 (KJV) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Consist Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
archaic a: exist be b: to be capable of existing This is what I get from my greek books: to place together, to bring or band together to put together, unite parts into one whole to be composed of, consist I draw from this that: Jesus was before all things. Jesus created all things. All things exists because He exists Jesus holds all things together. How far is this from what you are saying tesla?
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by tesla, posted 01-29-2008 8:13 PM | | tesla has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 105 by tesla, posted 01-30-2008 8:34 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 106 of 162 (452426)
01-30-2008 10:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 103 by Vacate
01-29-2008 10:22 PM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi Vacate, Breath taking Avatar
Vacate writes: Thats an interesting claim. You are claiming that everything came from just one 'energy'. I thought you claimed that something cannot come from nothing, but now you are willing to reduce it down to the entire universe came from just one 'energy'? Do you have evidence that engery multiplies; Is it multiplying now? In 15 billion years we went from one 'energy' to the universe, in another 15 will there be twice as much energy as there is currently? Everything coming from one energy makes more sense to me that everything coming from a point in space-time. When space-time did not exist as it was created in the big bang. Just a thought.
Vacate writes: Or we could just watch a thunderstorm and marvel at its obvious undirected electrical outbursts. My example is just to show a lack of direction. Vacate I thought lightning helped provide our daily need of the element nitrogen. Nitrogen is the third most abundant element in the human body, and it must be renewed continually. It has been so long since I thought about lightning I may be mistaken. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 103 by Vacate, posted 01-29-2008 10:22 PM | | Vacate has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 108 of 162 (452450)
01-30-2008 12:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 107 by Rahvin
01-30-2008 10:41 AM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi Rahvin, I am disappointed you did not continue our discussion.
Rahvin writes: General relativity doesn't "make sense" unless you study it for years, and not always even then. That is what I tell people about God but they don't believe me either.
Rahvin writes: Lightning does produce Nitrogen Oxide (not Nitrogen - lightning doesn't cause nuclear transmutation!), but it's a rather insignificant portion of the cycle. The first paragraph from your source.
The main component of the nitrogen cycle starts with the element nitrogen in the air. Two nitrogen oxides are found in the air as a result of interactions with oxygen. Nitrogen will only react with oxygen in the presence of high temperatures and pressures found near lightning bolts and in combustion reactions in power plants or internal combustion engines. Nitric oxide, NO, and nitrogen dioxide, NO2, are formed under these conditions. Eventually nitrogen dioxide may react with water in rain to form nitric acid, HNO3. The nitrates thus formed may be utilized by plants as a nutrient. I was pretty close having not read anything about it in ove 40 years. Lightning does have a purpose. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 107 by Rahvin, posted 01-30-2008 10:41 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 109 by Rahvin, posted 01-30-2008 1:13 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 113 of 162 (452578)
01-30-2008 6:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 111 by Vacate
01-30-2008 5:56 PM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi Vacate,
Vacate writes: Attempting to infer purpose in nature is just a game. It doesn't really have any answers to any real questions. There is no real reason as far as I can tell to object to your claim, it just doesn't really tell me anything. Having spent 59 years of my life serving the Lord why would I not think God created the heavens and earth in the beginning. When you add all the wonderful things I have been able to see and do, all of the answerd prayers. All the many prophecies that have come to pass in my lifetime, you see these are evidence to me. Now you believe the same thing I do you just call it singularity or nature, or mother nature. Solomon said: "There is a reason and purpose for everything". I don't doubt him. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Vacate, posted 01-30-2008 5:56 PM | | Vacate has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 115 by Vacate, posted 01-30-2008 7:17 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 139 of 162 (452648)
01-30-2008 9:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 115 by Vacate
01-30-2008 7:17 PM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi Vacate,
Vacate writes: We do appear to be in agreement. I have never had a problem with inserting God into the before. Call it what you will, it harms nothing and if it gives your days meaning - I am all for it. My complaint comes when it trivializes or contradicts science. God can never trivialize or contradict science. You see He invented it. The problem is he made us. Science is not the problem and neither is God the problem. God made man so He could have someone choose to love Him just because He is God. But to accomplish that He had to give us a lot more choices also. So I have my view of what is right, your have yours, in other words everybody has an opinion. Those opinions can be warped by many different things. So we are the problem because of our choices. The energy that is talked about is what keeps everything together and moving in a cordinated way. It also keeps it from flying apart. In Him we move and have our being. Nothing exists without God. If you will put God instead of Nature you would have the same thing I do. God set the laws and everything follow the laws but mankind. Hope that helps
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by Vacate, posted 01-30-2008 7:17 PM | | Vacate has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 152 of 162 (452998)
02-01-2008 12:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 150 by Lemkin
01-31-2008 9:24 PM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi Lemkin,
Lemkin writes: The Bible says that the whole Bible is true. Lemkin I could not let this one slip by. So where in the Bible does it say that? When you give chapter and verse please add the name of the preversion of bible you got it from. Bezer..... there are no words in the 42 bibles I have on my computer between these two..... Bicri Bible ain't in there.
Psal 33:4 (KJV) For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
Matt 24:35 (KJS) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Now when it comes to God's Word that is a different story as these two verses point out. Have fun now,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 150 by Lemkin, posted 01-31-2008 9:24 PM | | Lemkin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 160 by Lemkin, posted 02-04-2008 7:58 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 153 of 162 (452999)
02-01-2008 12:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 151 by tesla
01-31-2008 10:08 PM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi tesla,
tesla writes: just because someone would go to hell for warping something doesn't mean they wouldn't
Reve 22:19 (KJV) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Hasn't stopped anybody yet. Have fun Tim,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 151 by tesla, posted 01-31-2008 10:08 PM | | tesla has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 154 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 1:52 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 155 of 162 (453045)
02-01-2008 9:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 154 by tesla
02-01-2008 1:52 AM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi tesla,
tesla writes: but in your heart you cannot except the truth without some doubt But tesla this is exactly what most do. Then except the Lord and His truths......except = exclusion Instead of: Accept the Lord and His truths............accept = receive Have fun now,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 154 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 1:52 AM | | tesla has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 156 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 10:54 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 157 of 162 (453089)
02-01-2008 11:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 156 by tesla
02-01-2008 10:54 AM
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Re: Makes More Sense
Hi tesla,
tesla writes: misspelled the word. Just the spelling. If I had any doubts about God's Word, it has been completly dispelled in the last 10 months I have been at EvC. But there was no doubt before as there was a before. Have fun, was that a slip I mentioned in this other thread. Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 156 by tesla, posted 02-01-2008 10:54 AM | | tesla has not replied |
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