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Author Topic:   What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence?
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 149 of 222 (416809)
08-18-2007 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by georgeculolias
08-16-2007 1:39 AM


Re: My path from Atheism to faith
george writes:
How could there be a choice if there was ironclad proof that could be shown to the world. So then instead of choosing faith of a person's own volition and goodwill it would be forced on them because all mighty God told them to do whatever.
Why do you feel it is necessary or good for God to hide in the shadows and require "faith" in believing all sorts of extraordinary unbelievable stuff without "ironclad" evidence? Sounds like a great way to have a lot of confused, conflicting and disparate religious ideologies ... oh wait that is just what we have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by georgeculolias, posted 08-16-2007 1:39 AM georgeculolias has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by georgeculolias, posted 08-18-2007 12:30 AM iceage has replied
 Message 158 by pbee, posted 08-18-2007 2:01 AM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 152 of 222 (416816)
08-18-2007 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by georgeculolias
08-18-2007 12:30 AM


Re: My path from Atheism to faith
George writes:
If there was "ironclad proof" how is there choice and freewill?
Did Adam and Eve have *ironclad* proof of God's existence.. Yes... No?
Did they have free-will and choice?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by georgeculolias, posted 08-18-2007 12:30 AM georgeculolias has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by georgeculolias, posted 08-18-2007 12:48 AM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 154 of 222 (416818)
08-18-2007 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by georgeculolias
08-18-2007 12:48 AM


Re: My path from Atheism to faith
OK how about Judas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by georgeculolias, posted 08-18-2007 12:48 AM georgeculolias has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by georgeculolias, posted 08-18-2007 1:06 AM iceage has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 169 of 222 (417015)
08-19-2007 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by pbee
08-18-2007 2:01 AM


Re: My path from Atheism to faith
It is telling that you rambled on (regurgitating a prior sermon perhaps) without addressing the point at all. Were you perhaps responding to someone else's point
God is a worker. Ok, great. What does that have to do with the point on why would God reward blind belief? or consider it good that we should believe things without any evidence. Perhaps God rewards honest reasoning and punishes foolish faith.
And just who is being flamboyant and asking "Let God show himself! so that we don't go out looking."?????
This is a straw man.
A fool will believe anything, but a sensible person considers his steps. ” Proverbs 14:15.
Why is it not wise to look for evidence and use reasoning (considering your steps) so as not to fall into a trap being lured by selfish promises of everlasting life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by pbee, posted 08-18-2007 2:01 AM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by pbee, posted 08-19-2007 2:10 AM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 175 of 222 (417044)
08-19-2007 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by pbee
08-19-2007 2:10 AM


Re: My path from Atheism to faith
pbee writes:
nice and small for those with short attention spans and learning disabilities.
I was not aware that personal insults are a feature of Christian beliefs.
pbee writes:
Nothing is free! God exemplified that work was the key to earning everything. Even Adam and Eve had to make an effort in order to betray God!
You are still going to have to break it down further because you are still not making sense.
Your implied presumption is that those who state that unfounded and unevidenced beliefs are bunk (aka blind faith) are lazy. While the opposite is true. Many Christians have spent very little time understanding their own "holy book", what are the difficult parts and how did it come in existence, etc, because they have been overly seduced with promises of everlasting life or supernatural intervention in their lives. Most conversions are leap-of-faith style that requires no work, just overworked emotions.
phee writes:
It is only the lazy ones who will complain of the efforts needed to gain an accurate knowledge of God. But look! millions of people have taken the initiative and attained there goals. So to that I say, stop whining like spoiled children, and earn your reward like abled men.
Where are you getting this notion that I, or anyone else here is complaining about the "efforts needed to gain an accurate knowledge of God"? I am stating the unfounded and unevidenced beliefs lead to superstition, fractured and flawed philosophies and are not to valued.
phee writes:
But look! millions of people have taken the initiative and attained there goals.
Are you talking about Talmudists, Buddhist or Mormons?
Edited by iceage, : typos

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by pbee, posted 08-19-2007 2:10 AM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by pbee, posted 08-19-2007 3:32 AM iceage has not replied

  
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