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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Faith
Member
Posts: 24482
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 406 of 440 (780670)
03-18-2016 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by jar
03-17-2016 9:34 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
That is all nice but irrelevant to the question asked. Those are all stories from before the ascension.

You claim Jesus is alive. Present tense. Not Jesus was alive but is alive.

His being alive after the resurrection but before the ascension is sufficient to make the case that He's also alive after the ascension.

However, if you want something from after the ascension, it's in Revelation:

Rev 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

What does it mean? Well, I believe I'll get to see Him in the flesh eventually, in a human body, a real person, able to talk to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by jar, posted 03-17-2016 9:34 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 4:20 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 407 of 440 (780671)
03-18-2016 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by Faith
03-18-2016 4:11 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Faith writes:

His being alive after the resurrection but before the ascension is sufficient to make the case that He's also alive after the ascension.

Again, how is that evidence that Jesus is alive today?

What does "Jesus is alive today" even mean.

And no quote from Revelation addresses anything today.

Faith writes:

What does it mean? Well, I believe I'll get to see Him in the flesh eventually, in a human body, a real person, able to talk to me.

And will you be alive at that time?

What does that even mean?

Edited by jar, : missed second assertion.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:28 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24482
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 408 of 440 (780673)
03-18-2016 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by jar
03-18-2016 4:20 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Yes I will be alive at that time. I will be me, in a lovely new body that can't get sick or weak. Alive is alive jar, I don't know why you are having such a problem with the concept.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 4:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 5:11 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 409 of 440 (780675)
03-18-2016 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Faith
03-18-2016 4:28 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
You say it is a new body that will not get sick or weak.

That does not fit anything we know of that is alive.

What does "Jesus is alive today" mean?

What does "Yes I will be alive at that time. I will be me, in a lovely new body that can't get sick or weak." mean in relation to what we know today as being alive?

AbE:

Let me try an example all should be familiar with, George Washington's hatchet he used to chop down the cherry tree. The handle had been replaced a few times and the head at least once, but it's the very same hatchett.

HUH?

You will have a new body but you will still be you?

What does that mean?

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 4:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 6:46 PM jar has responded
 Message 414 by kbertsche, posted 03-19-2016 1:04 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24482
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 410 of 440 (780680)
03-18-2016 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by jar
03-18-2016 5:11 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
What does "Yes I will be alive at that time. I will be me, in a lovely new body that can't get sick or weak." mean in relation to what we know today as being alive?

What we know today as "alive" is really more dead than alive because of the Fall which brought every kind of disease, deformity and death into the world. This is indicated when scripture says unbelievers are "dead in their sins." It is also implied in the message that the gospel "quickens" or brings to life that which was dead. It is implied in Jesus' saying He gives us eternal life. Being born again means to be born into a new life, a true new life. The resurrection from the dead in a certain sense occurs already, or at least begins, when a person is born again. So the new body believers can expect to have (I realize I jumped the gun on this since we won't have it until the Final Judgment when all are resurrected. Until then, as I understand it, we will have the life of spirits.) The TRUE life, the life God originally created, is disease-free and can't die.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 5:11 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 7:02 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 411 of 440 (780682)
03-18-2016 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Faith
03-18-2016 6:46 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
But that still tells us nothing Faith.

We recognize most things that are alive as alive and things that are not alive as not alive.

Only in the Princess Bride do distinctions like "What we know today as "alive" is really more dead than alive because of the Fall which brought every kind of disease, deformity and death into the world. "

In addition, not all Christianity believes there was a Fall and the Bible stories in Genesis 2&3 do not describe a Fall.

But that is the closest to actually being a description of what you think Christianity is even if so much of it seem just word salad and unintelligible.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 6:46 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 7:05 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24482
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 412 of 440 (780684)
03-18-2016 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by jar
03-18-2016 7:02 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
It may tell YOU nothing, but that's because you work so hard to eliminate the truth. For believers it's rich with information.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 7:02 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 7:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 413 of 440 (780688)
03-18-2016 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by Faith
03-18-2016 7:05 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Faith writes:

It may tell YOU nothing, but that's because you work so hard to eliminate the truth. For believers it's rich with information.

Then perhaps you can share whatever information is there.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Faith, posted 03-18-2016 7:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
kbertsche
Member
Posts: 1359
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 414 of 440 (780690)
03-19-2016 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by jar
03-18-2016 5:11 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
jar writes:

What does "Jesus is alive today" mean?


Do you believe that God exists? Do you believe that God is alive? If so, what do these statements mean?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. Erwin Schroedinger


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by jar, posted 03-18-2016 5:11 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 8:10 AM kbertsche has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 415 of 440 (780691)
03-19-2016 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by kbertsche
03-19-2016 1:04 AM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
I believe that God exists.

I do not believe God is alive.

I cannot imagine or describe what such a state might be but it certainly is not alive in the way we use the term alive.

Perhaps, once I have died, I might have some understanding but until then I must admit that I am and I am very likely to remain clueless.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by kbertsche, posted 03-19-2016 1:04 AM kbertsche has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 03-19-2016 9:29 AM jar has responded
 Message 417 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2016 9:39 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24482
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 416 of 440 (780692)
03-19-2016 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by jar
03-19-2016 8:10 AM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
I believe that God exists.

I do not believe God is alive.

Your insistence that Jesus is not alive because YOU have a problem understanding the concept, and God, and your incessant contradiction of the Bible on any concept that you personally have a problem with, and your general attitude in post after post that what the historical Church thinks is wrong because YOU have a problem with what the Church thinks, is a level of arrogance that I can't fathom.

I quote scripture and you say it means nothing. Obviously it means nothing to YOU but who are you to judge the Bible and judge two thousand years of Christian understanding? Who cares what YOU understand about it anyway? In this post you say you are clueless almost in a humble way but such an attitude is so rare I'm sure you don't mean it: if you are clueless that implies a fault with the concept that God is alive, not with you. If you said you don't get it, with some sense that the fault is on you, that would be fine, but you don't, what YOU don't understand trumps what the Bible says and the whole history of Christian belief. The way YOU read the Bible is the right way, no matter how many respected commentators disagree with you. They are "shills" or "marketing" something. Unbelievable arrogance. Christian doctrine is a historical consensus, not a one-man show.

The Bible calls God the "living God" in thirty different places. Here's the first:

Deu 5:26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?

If you don't get it that's YOUR fault, not the Bible's.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 8:10 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 9:40 AM Faith has responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10192
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 417 of 440 (780693)
03-19-2016 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by jar
03-19-2016 8:10 AM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
believe that God exists.
I do not believe God is alive.

I cannot imagine or describe what such a state might be but it certainly is not alive in the way we use the term alive.

Does that mean you canimagine or describe Gods state of existence then?

I'd love to hear this description.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 8:10 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 9:47 AM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 418 of 440 (780694)
03-19-2016 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Faith
03-19-2016 9:29 AM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
An assertion by folk who wrote the various Bible stories is not really very strong evidence of anything Faith, particularly when it is a fact that so much that is said to be fact in the Bible stories is simply false and the product of ignorance.

The topic though is to try to define what people think is Christianity. You have one version and this is the place where you can try to present what YOU think is Christianity.

You will notice that I have never denied or claimed that your beliefs are not a version of Christianity.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 03-19-2016 9:29 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Faith, posted 03-19-2016 11:16 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 419 of 440 (780695)
03-19-2016 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by Straggler
03-19-2016 9:39 AM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Straggler writes:

Does that mean you canimagine or describe Gods state of existence then?

As I have explained to you many, many, many, many times, no I cannot imagine or describe GOD's state. Nor, at least as long as I am a alive can I see any reasonable way that might be possible.

But as I have explained to you many, many, many, many times I can describe the state of God(s) and god(s). They are a human construct, a product of our imagination.

This is made abundantly clear in the Bible stories themselves; the God character of Genesis 1 is described entirely differently than the much older God character of Genesis 2&3. Each reflects how the people of that particular era, tradition, mythos saw God.

I'm reasonably certain that all of the various God(s) and god(s) descriptions are wrong though.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2016 9:39 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2016 10:59 AM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10192
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 420 of 440 (780696)
03-19-2016 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 419 by jar
03-19-2016 9:47 AM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
I am not arguing with your belief. I am disputing your logic.

On one hand you say you do NOT believe God is alive because:

I cannot imagine or describe what such a state might be but it certainly is not alive in the way we use the term alive.

But on the other hand you do believe that God exists despite similarly being unable to "imagine or describe" what such a state of 'existence' might entail.

Its logically inconsistent is my point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 9:47 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by jar, posted 03-19-2016 11:05 AM Straggler has responded

  
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