An object lesson

I'm gonna start a simple object lesson, but I will need your help. I promise there is no trickery involved. I will only ask questions which are simply phrased and are to be read at face value, and my only request is that you, the respondent, answer each of them honestly. I'll begin one question at a time, and pose the following question(s) after I feel I've gotten a suitable number of responses to the previous one(s).Once the subsequent question is posed, I would appreciate it if respondents would limit their answers to the latest question asked, but it's not absolutely crucial to the lesson.After I've gotten a sufficient number of responses to each of my questions, I'll summarize with a single post that should illustrate my purpose clearly (which will likely become clear anyway through the course of the questions). You will not be judged by your responses; it is only the diversity of responses that is important.I would also appreciate it if in the beginning respondents would only respond to my questions and avoid debating eachother's responses until later in the thread, preferably once I've put forth my summary post and open discussion can commence.Lastly, FYI: I'm currently involved in moving into a new apartment and I don't have internet access in the new place yet. As a result, I'm only able to post to EvC from work and so my own participation in the thread will be intermittent.So, without further ado, please answer this first question with a simple "Agree" or "Disagree":Yellow is a prettier color than red. Agree or Disagree?

I'm talking your basic, general, run-of-the-mill yellow and red. Like the colors that come up on your monitor when you use the HTML color names "yellow" or "red"Not some I'm-gonna-read-a-bunch-more-into-the-question-so-as-to-confuse-the-issue shades of them.

AUUUUGGGHHH!!! I purposely chose those colors so that the answers would fall either way with a relatively equal distribution. You don't need to claim either as your mostest favoritest color, just tell me which one is prettier than the other. Of course you might think chartreuse is prettier than both of them BUT THAT'S IRRELEVANT!! EDIT: How about this revision:The best shade of yellow is prettier than the best shade of red. Agree or Disagree?[This message has been edited by ::, 12-30-2003][This message has been edited by ::, 12-30-2003]

THANK YOU, EVERYONE!! FYI, my response to my own question is "Agree."Now, on to the next question:'Hotel California' is a better song than 'Sweet Home Alabama'. Agree or Disagree?Note, you are free to judge these songs according to any criteria you wish. You might think that Sweet Home has a better intro lick, and that Hotel Caliornia has a better guitar solo, but its up to you to compare them in every aspect and pick the better song with a simple "Agree" or "Disagree."Thank you all again for your participation. So far this is coming along excellently.

I will note your answers to both of my questions so far as "Disagree"

Okay, that's good enough I think. Thanks again for your continued participation, we have only a short way to go until we can wrap this all up.FYI, my response to my last question is "Agree."Next question:In general, chicken is more tasty than steak. Agree or Disagree?

Just making it more obvious that shadowdragon's response it to the 'Hotel California' vs. 'Sweet Home Alabama' question. I think he posted it only minute(s) after I posted my new question.No big deal, and shadowdragon I thank you for your response. [This message has been edited by ::, 12-31-2003]

Am I to take this to mean that you have no preference with regard to the tastiness of chicken or steak?[This message has been edited by ::, 12-31-2003]

Not at all. I asked in my opening post for persons to respond honestly. If you honestly think that chicken is tastier than steak, then your original response is disingenuous. If you think steak is tastier than chicken, your response is still disingenuous since it did not fully represent your position.Now, please answer this question directly with a yes or no:Do you, Mike, think chicken is tastier than steak?

Okay! Thank you all for your perseverence. We're down to the very last question:The abortion-abolishment platform is better than the pro-choice platform. Agree or Disagree?EDIT: Also BTW, my answer to the chicken vs. steak issue is: Disagree.[This message has been edited by ::, 12-31-2003]

Please simply answer the question. We can discuss any implication you wish after I've composed my summary post.

As I expected, many of you anticipated my point in this thread quite easily. My intent with this exercise was to demonstrate that the truth of moral statements is subjective in the same way that the truth of other aesthetic statements is. It was primarily intended as an example to those that insist that moral statements have objective and absolute truth values. What we have have seen is that the pretty-ness of yellow or red does not have a single absolute value, nor does the tastiness of chicken or steak, nor does the sonic enjoyability of a song, nor does the rightness or wrongness of abortion.It is interesting to note, however, that the participants seemed to struggle with answers to the first three questions, however when confronted with an very partisan issue like abortion, everyone seemed to know instantly where they stood. I think this is important to point out because I think that type of obvious-ness with regard to certain moral situations creates the illusion of absolute and objective truth. It would seem that it must be absolutely true that raping and torturing an infant is wrong, and while nearly everyone would agree to the statement "Raping and torturing an infant is wrong," that does not make its truth value any more objective or absolute than the other questions in this thread.So anyway, while I thank everyone for their responses, I appreciate Mike's and Buz's participation in this thread the most as they seem to have been the only conservative Christians (at least, that I know of) that offered responses, and it is generally conservative Christians that I observe advancing the notion of objective and absolute morality. Buz's response was most refreshing to say the least as he basically cut to the very heart of the matter, and Mike more-or-less approached it when he resisted offering a complete answer to my questions. Honestly, I had expected one of them to cry foul, and it pleases me to see that they understand the issue better than I supposed. Guess that's what I get for generalizing, eh? If anyone has any more comments or questions, you are welcome to post them now.[This message has been edited by ::, 01-02-2004]

Yeah, sorry about that. If it helps, you can make the symbol by holding down the ALT key and typing 0230. In other words, ALT + 0230 makes: .Here's a page of the rest of the ALT combos:Accent Marks and Diacriticals, Alt Number Combinations, alt num, alt keyIf you're using a Mac... well... God help you. I mean that I expected someone like you would protest that my comparison of moral questions to other aesthetic questions was invalid. I'm still not sure where you stand in regards to that, actually, given this statement: And that was exactly my point with the moral question as well. The answers to moral questions are also relative to you and me.

No, it's not, and I addressed this in Post #142 of the thread "Where did God come from?" to which you have not responded. If you have a response, please post it in that thread. If you cannot rebut my post, then I think you are being disingenuous to continue making the claims that you have.

See my response in the thread "Where did God come from?"