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Author Topic:   Evidence for God
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 54 of 213 (481226)
09-10-2008 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Open MInd
09-10-2008 12:28 AM


Re: A misleading thread
quote:
You are ignoring the challenge that I am presenting you. If you cannot solve this problem then you are admitting that there is a difference between Judaism and other religions. For the sake of this debate can you please come up with a mechanism for the beginning of Judaism.
Sure. If the beginnings of all other religions could be invented "by a single liar" then so could Judaism. The story you refer to could easily be a lie. After all it was written long after the true facts were forgotten.
Judges 2:10 (NASB translation)
All that generation also were gathered to their fathers; and there arose another generation after them who did not know the LORD, nor yet the work which He had done for Israel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Open MInd, posted 09-10-2008 12:28 AM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Open MInd, posted 09-10-2008 3:04 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 64 of 213 (481391)
09-10-2008 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Open MInd
09-10-2008 3:04 PM


Re: A misleading thread
quote:
You can't use the book of Judges to diprove the Torah.
I'm not. I'm using it to point to a big hole in your argument.
quote:
Do you even notice what you are doing.
Yes, I'm pointing to a big hole in your argument. A story written long after the fact, after the true events have supposedly been forgotten can easily be a fabrication.
quote:
However, you have no reason to believe this book, and it must be kept out of the arguement. As far as you are concerned, the book of Judges may be false.
It may be false. But you need to show that it is wrong in this case or your argument fails. More, you need a positive case to show that the story you refer to is actually true and not a fabrication or a legend that grew up long after whatever really happened.

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 Message 58 by Open MInd, posted 09-10-2008 3:04 PM Open MInd has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 87 of 213 (481660)
09-12-2008 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Open MInd
09-11-2008 9:09 PM


Re: Not so Far Fetched
quote:
I would expect more from a logical person such as yourself. Where is the evidence of your entire story? There is none. What part of Documentary "Hypothesis" do you not understand. The Jewish people claim a tradition that dates back 4000 years or more. What evidence do you have that will contradict this tradition?
Where is the evidence that this "tradition" is anything more than a fabrication ?
As I have pointed out the book of Judges suggests there was no such tradition.
The Exodus is not only implausible as written, it cannot be reliably linked with history or archaeology.
The historical markers in the text of Exodus are anachronistic, from a time well after the supposed events, indicating that the story was written long after the events, and there are other indications too.
The evidence indicates that the story was written long after events and there is no evidence that the tradition is based on anything other than the story. And there is certainly good reason to believe that the story has been greatly exaggerated in other respects.
So we have no reason to believe that "tradition" any more than we have to believe the story in the Torah.
It is far more likely that the story developed gradually and has little connection to historical fact, just as Judaism gradually grew out of being just another Canaanite religion.

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