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Author Topic:   Evidence for God
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 78 of 213 (481583)
09-11-2008 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Brian
09-10-2008 5:52 PM


Re: A misleading thread
This is exactly what the Torah says. You may want to read it (not a translation made by "another religion").

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Brian, posted 09-10-2008 5:52 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Brian, posted 09-12-2008 3:24 AM Open MInd has not replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 81 of 213 (481612)
09-11-2008 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by bluescat48
09-11-2008 7:14 PM


Re: Not so Far Fetched
bluescat48 writes:
Yes there are quacks, but most religious beliefs are nothing more than mythology to explain what the particular group could not explain.
Where is the evidence of the above statement? Also, you refer to religious beliefs, and you make no mention of the formation of an actual organized religion. These religious beliefs that you are
referring to are those of the ancient religions that were not organized much at all. These religions are not practiced today by many people. Please explore the foundation of the widely practiced religions of today and you will see where I am coming from. I might add as well that the Torah makes almost no mention of the physics of the Universe. All it basically says is that the world you see today was created by G-d. Then it gives a cryptic explanation made to be something that humans can understand. The true mechanism of the creation of the world is evidently very complicated. The Torah is not a science book and it never was a science book. It was made to guide the lives of the people who received it.
bluescat48 writes:
to explain what the particular group could not explain
?
Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2008 7:14 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2008 8:58 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 83 of 213 (481615)
09-11-2008 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Modulous
09-11-2008 3:50 PM


Re: Not so Far Fetched
I would expect more from a logical person such as yourself. Where is the evidence of your entire story? There is none. What part of Documentary "Hypothesis" do you not understand. The Jewish people claim a tradition that dates back 4000 years or more. What evidence do you have that will contradict this tradition? NOTHING You are formulating information from ignorance. Please realize what you are doing. Also, I have already answered the OP. The Jews and the Muslims are referring to the same G-d. They are only arguing about the prophesy of the founder of Islam. The Jews consider this man to be a false prophet, with all of the motives that I have described in other posts. The Muslims think that G-d changed his mind and gave a whole new set of rules through another prophet. This is the extent of the argument over these religions. They may have also tried to change what was written in the Torah. However let me repeat myself, every single Torah scroll in use today is identical in every single way, with the exception of one letter. This letter change is the difference between an aleph and a hay. Both of these letters make the same sound in the particular context, and the translation of the word is not changed in any way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Modulous, posted 09-11-2008 3:50 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 85 of 213 (481619)
09-11-2008 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by bluescat48
09-11-2008 8:58 PM


Re: Not so Far Fetched
You will not find a single Bible in all of these denominations. The Christians have changed the text many times. Do you remember how changes started. Kings did not like the church so they decided to make there own form of the religion. Also, you agree that the beliefs are all random, but the religion was founded by one liar. Another liar took over after his . And yet another took over after that. They all claimed to have seen a resurrection of the liar. They obviously received fame for this. There names are all known of today. The compiler of the original Torah would still remain unknown according to conspiracy theorists.
bluescat48 writes:
Oh! So humans are stupid since they are given a childish story of creation, instead of what really occured.
I already said that the Torah is not a science book and G-d did not wish to give an in depth explanation of how the universe was created. First of all, there would be no reason to do this. Second of all, suppose the entire science of physics was written in the Torah, who would understand it. NOBODY So what would be the point. All G-d was doing was explaining that He created the world. The specifics would have not been comprehended in that time anyway. Just as a side note, suppose the Torah would write The Big Bang Theory, Would humans name it the Big Bang Theory? Also, do you think that humans are done explaining the creation of the Universe. There is still more to be explained. If G-d would write the current Standard inside the Torah, it would only be good until new theory comes out. Also, What would scientists do with their lives if G-d explained everything. G-d is nice enough to let the scientists have the fun and challenge of exploration. This was particularly nice of G-d. Think about it that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2008 8:58 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by bluescat48, posted 09-12-2008 8:47 AM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 91 of 213 (481758)
09-12-2008 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by bluescat48
09-12-2008 8:47 AM


Re: Not so Far Fetched
This is the same thing as saying, "Where is the evidence that all of the scientists are not just creating fossils in there backyard?" You have to show me evidence that it has been changed! There is no evidence of any changes in the Torah, and there is evidence of changes in the Bible. You are assuming change with no facts to back it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by bluescat48, posted 09-12-2008 8:47 AM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 97 of 213 (482003)
09-13-2008 10:05 PM


A Real Skeptic
Some people think that I am very gullible for "blindly" following a religion. This is not true. I am extremely skeptical. When I began life, people were telling me what the purpose of this whole world is. This made perfect sense to me, and I found no logical flaws with what they were saying. I see that the world exists and I believe that it must have been created by someone. Then in my old age I became extremely skeptical. So skeptical that I realized that there is no way to prove that the world even does exist. In fact, all the people in the world could very well be figments of my imagination. If I would all of the sudden not be able to see, smell, hear, taste, or feel, the entire world would cease to exist. This makes me doubt the idea that the world even exists all together. I come to this conclusion, since I cannot prove that the world exists it must not really exist. However, I am still left with a problem. Where did I come from? Everyone in the world is telling me that I came from a man and a women. My parents tell me that I definitely came from them. However, they may just be figments of my imagination as well. I cannot prove that they are actually thinking beings that exist outside of my five senses. Therefore, on a personal level, I remain extremely skeptical. However, I still cannot explain where I came from. I therefore assume that some being out there must have created me. I then ask myself why this being has created me. I have no way of answering this question. Why would a being create me, and put me in a state where I have no idea why I was created? This seems counterintuitive. Then I finally got it. I was created to do what the illusionary religious leaders have been telling me to do. I do not know if I am alone in the world or if others are put here to do the same thing. All I know is that I was created and I was told what I was created for. The rest of the world may yet not even exist.
Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.
Edited by Open MInd, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by subbie, posted 09-13-2008 10:16 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 99 of 213 (482005)
09-13-2008 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by subbie
09-13-2008 10:16 PM


Re: A Real Skeptic
According to the evidence, my conscious would be created through unconscious matter. This is something that science is still struggling with. If they do not know where the conscious comes from then they do not really know where the world comes from either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by subbie, posted 09-13-2008 10:16 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by subbie, posted 09-13-2008 10:29 PM Open MInd has replied
 Message 101 by likemindedchocolatebar, posted 09-14-2008 10:02 AM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 102 of 213 (482096)
09-14-2008 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by subbie
09-13-2008 10:29 PM


Re: A Real Skeptic
Let me guess, you are saying that life is either green or blue. Is this what you are saying? This is a yes or no question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by subbie, posted 09-13-2008 10:29 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by subbie, posted 09-15-2008 7:46 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 103 of 213 (482100)
09-14-2008 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by likemindedchocolatebar
09-14-2008 10:02 AM


Re: A Real Skeptic
I can believe this book because it was taught to me as truth. Since I have no proof of anything in the world other than my own existence, I am assuming that whoever created me intended for me to have this book and consider it truth. Since the rest of the world may not even exist, there is no proof that I could possibly be born into any other religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by likemindedchocolatebar, posted 09-14-2008 10:02 AM likemindedchocolatebar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by likemindedchocolatebar, posted 09-15-2008 5:32 PM Open MInd has replied
 Message 109 by bluescat48, posted 09-15-2008 11:34 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 111 of 213 (482395)
09-16-2008 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by bluescat48
09-15-2008 11:34 PM


Re: A Real Skeptic
According to my logic, there is no such thing as a what if. The idea that anything else "could" happen has no logical basis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by bluescat48, posted 09-15-2008 11:34 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by bluescat48, posted 09-16-2008 5:01 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 112 of 213 (482396)
09-16-2008 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by subbie
09-15-2008 7:46 PM


Re: A Real Skeptic
I gave you exactly what I said in the exact words that I wrote. So the literal answer to your question (if it has to be yes or no) has to be no. And this is my answer, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by subbie, posted 09-15-2008 7:46 PM subbie has not replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 113 of 213 (482398)
09-16-2008 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by likemindedchocolatebar
09-15-2008 5:32 PM


Re: A Real Skeptic
You have made no refutation to my claim. You simply assume that I could have been born into any other religion. But, I already said that I can not even prove that other people exist, let alone a whole other set of beliefs. As far as I am concerned there is no proof that other beliefs even exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by likemindedchocolatebar, posted 09-15-2008 5:32 PM likemindedchocolatebar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by subbie, posted 09-16-2008 5:20 PM Open MInd has replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 117 of 213 (482451)
09-16-2008 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by subbie
09-16-2008 5:20 PM


Re: Not a Real Skeptic
That is correct. You have no proof that I exist or that my beliefs exist. But this has nothing to do with me. You may just be a figment of my imagination. All I know for a fact is that I was not conscious forever, and therefore someone must have caused this illusion. Whoever created me also made the illusion of you. He may want me to debate you, or he may not even want me to debate you. All I know is that I was born being taught certain things as truth. If whoever created me did not want me to consider these things as truth, He would have created me with parent illusions that were teaching me something else. This is completely logical. Theoretically, if you actually did exist (of course I can never prove that you do), and you were taught that the world had no meaning, you would have no reason to believe that the world does have any meaning. However, I have no way of showing with any evidence that there is a possibility that I would have been born in any other situation. Just because these situations seem to exist in my own illusion does not prove that other people actually do exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by subbie, posted 09-16-2008 5:20 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by subbie, posted 09-16-2008 5:46 PM Open MInd has not replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 119 of 213 (482453)
09-16-2008 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by bluescat48
09-16-2008 5:01 PM


Re: A Real Skeptic
bluescat48 writes:
Just 'cause it was taught to you as truth doesn't make it so.
Unfortunately, I cannot prove this statement either. Because whoever did create my illusionary life, started my life with people telling me what was the truth. If I wanted to change my belief I would first have to prove this one to be false. Then I would search for another purpose for me being created.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by bluescat48, posted 09-16-2008 5:01 PM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Open MInd
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 261
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 121 of 213 (482455)
09-16-2008 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Agobot
09-16-2008 5:38 PM


Re: Not a Real Skeptic
You have to admit that you are making some wild assumptions when you consider the whole world to actually exist. There is not a shred of evidence to make you believe that the world actually exists. Not even one shred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Agobot, posted 09-16-2008 5:38 PM Agobot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Granny Magda, posted 09-16-2008 6:36 PM Open MInd has replied
 Message 130 by bluescat48, posted 09-16-2008 10:54 PM Open MInd has not replied

  
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