Why so friggin' confident?

Hi Reality Man,I like your style. You pop in and post an OP and get the EvC machine going and you disappear leaving us to fight it out.Nevertheless I must get in on this subject. How do I know you typed on a keyboard?You may be using voice recognition as far as I know.I am not going to try to speak for anyone other than myself in this response.First question, "What is Faith"?The answer to that is found in Hebrews 11:1 It is simply something I believe.As far as tangible evidence I can show you there is none.Do I have evidence that has made my faith increase? Yes.The biggest problem is most people have no idea whose faith we are talking about or how faith is obtained.Until Jesus ascended faith was by sight. People saw Jesus and believed. Well we don't have that privilege today.But we do have the Word of God. This scripture tells me that faith cometh by hearing the word of God.The only way I know of explaining that is to tell what happened to me.When I was 9 years and 11 months old I had read through the Bible one time and was in I Corinthians on my second time. But the Bible had never spoke to me.The little country church down the road from my house was having a revival so I told Mom and Dad I was going to church as they never took me I had to catch a ride. That was no problem as the first car that came by stopped and picked me up.The preacher read from the Bible and then he lit into a rage about everybody who died without receiving Christ as their personal savior was going to hell. Well there was something in my head telling me I needed to get saved but I said no thank you. Church dismissed and I went home.I went to bed and went to sleep. But sometime during the night I woke up and these verses of scripture keep going through my head. I realized God loved me.His Son died for me.I didn't have to be condemned to hell like that preacher said.I claimed God's promise by putting my spirit in His hands and trusting Him to take care of everything.At that moment God sent the Holy Spirit to seal my eternal spirit until the day of redemption.I had no clue as to what faith was.I only believed God could do what He said He could.Now I understand a little more about faith.I heard God's Word not just a bunch of words but God spoke to me through His Word. This tells me that when I heard the word and received God's offer He dealt me a measure of faith. In other words God provided the faith I have.And guess what it is not even mine. This verse tells me it is the faith of Jesus Christ that provides the righteousness of God to everyone that believes God.There have been many events that have taken place in the past 60 years that confirm God still loves me even though I am not worthy of such love.My faith has been increased over the years to the point I am very sure of what I believe.I would be the happiest man on earth if it was not for the fact that 104 people die and go out into eternity every minute and most of them will spend eternity in the lake of fire.I am so helpless to reach them with the good news that Jesus died and paid their debt and all they have to do is receive the pardon offered to everyone that believeth.I can not tell everyone but I will tell anyone who will listen that is all I can do.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

When Paul found out that these disciples in Acts 19 were John the Baptist's disciples, he proceded to preach Jesus to them, and they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began speaking with tongures and prophesying, just as happened to the 120 on the day on Pentecost in Acts 2.Let me hear from those at this forum who have turned away from this Scriptural salvation.

Post # 29 explained why I believe. I believe in the message of God's salvation as explained in Acts 2:38 because the same thing happened to me after I believed as happened to the 120 in Acts 2:1-4.If your faith is based in those who tell it to you, it's based in the wrong person.Your faith must be based in God's word, the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, letting Him draw you to Himself.Blessings

Islam honors Abraham's son Ishmael and his descendants.Judaism honors Abraham's son Isaac and his descendants.Christianity honors Abraham's son Isaac and his descendants who prophesied that God would send His Messiah. When the Messiah Jesus came, Jesus said this to the Jews of His day in John 6, Islam rejects Messiah Jesus as Lord.Judaism rejects Messiah Jesus as Lord.Christianity receives and honors Jesus as Lord.Blessings

Do you see your logical fallacy here?You missed my entire point of WHY should I believe Christianity (or even Judaism) over Islam.Your reasoning is circular and you don't even realize it.Basically you are saying: "I believe in a Jesus and God because the Bible say so."Me- "So why do you believe in the Bible and not the Qur'an or any other religious text?"You - "Because God says he is the only true God in the Bible."That is a logical fallacy called circular reasoning.Use your brain. If you want anyone to take you seriously, provide real evidence for your beliefs. Otherwise you are just another blind believer who cannot even provide a credible reason for his religious faith.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Again circular reasoning and bare assertions with not one shred of evidence.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

WHY!!!!Why should we trust this 2000 year old book. Why should we not trust the Quran, the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price, the Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible), the Theravada and the Mahayana (Buddhism), the Gaudiya Vaishnavism and Sruti (Hinduism), the Gnostic Gospels, the Apocrypha, Dianetics (Scientology), or the Avesta (Zoroasterism). I could go on but I won't.Why should we trust the Bible over any of these other religious text?Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Hi Razd. Thanks for the kind greeting. May your 1909 be healthful and fulfilling. I hope you're doing better than you were a year or so go.1. Biblical prophecy, Biblical archeology, Biblical history etc are all tentative relative to the credibility of the Biblical record.2. As I have explained, faith is exercised upon the unknowns relative to the hypothesis, the safety of the bridge or the credibility of a given record, etc.3. Faith in the Biblical god, Jehovah rests upon the observable known evidence of the Biblical record which alleges his existence and claims about him in that record.This is all tentative relative to new archaeological data, ongoing fulfillment of prophecy, verification of history, verifiable phenomena such as healings, etc. The Biblical record is tentative to new evidence relative to these factors as they are added to the evidence base. For example, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Six Day War in Israel of 1967, The Exodus archaeological expeditions and research, Robert Ballard's Black Sea discoveries, etc can all be regarded by creationists as evidence to bolster our faith in the Biblical record. Thus our faith in Jehovah, the Biblical god is bolstered as well.4. Though mainline science does not regard theory as absolute Truth, it's status is pretty much regarded as absolute and exclusive by the majority of science fora, institutions and media.5. Much in the Biblical record which is regarded by most as faith based is falsifiable and therefore, tentative.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Easy. Lack of evidence needful to justify faith in all of the above but the Hebrew Bible.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

RAZD writes:Not at all, actually, Its that you are having trouble with reality. You made this statement: Now no matter the force of logic, it is certain that some but not all people may know why they have faith. Is it valid to assume that because some dont all dont. RAZD, explaining logical terms and concepts doesnt help you statement become valid. The direct implication from your statement is that faith cannot be substantiated in any circumstance, I therefore designated it as hog wash. Care to try again. Your implication is obvious. The reason behind my statement is that reality may be different than some prescribed definition. While definitions are helpful ,they dont often describe reality. The reality behind the situation is that there is much to believe and there is much reliability behind the Christian faith. Simply implying and using logical terms to indicate that there is not, is not sufficent to the task. It only gives the appearance that it may be false, if your statements are worded just right.Further your estimations and conclusions are only opinions in that direction. Further I did not say that pointing out that some beliefs are false, is prejudice. My implication was that it serves no real purpose until the evidence is examined. To start with a preconcieved idea could be construed as prejudicial. Again you are drawing unwarrented conclusions. Should the Bible not be believed if the Gap theory is true. The belief in a young earth is not inconsistent with reality or the scriptures, if the young earth principle is based on a understanding that God started over again, with a work he had originally started.You are simply to rigid in your application of logic and logical concepts. The ole mountain out of a mole hill syndrome.Bertot writes:RAZD writes:Duh, ya think? We, including yourself, are all guilty of special pleading. Besides when I use the term faith, i dont mean it, nor did I assume you did in the sense of a persons particular affiliation. Ofcourse I mean it in the sense of a 'belief', regardless of religous concepts. Belief or faith, whatever you wish to call it, is either based in some fact or it is not. In which case it becomes blind faith or belief. Judeo-Christianity does not even come close to the nonsubstantial.It is your fault if you have not made contact with people that can provide a rational response to your unwarrented conclusion about the term "faith".However, let me say this also in this connection. While God has provided much evidence to the belief in his existence and his Word, ironically it is Faith that is required more than knowledge. There is a common misunderstanding however in how faith is to be understood from a Biblical perspective. Faith in the scriptures is not unsubstantiated belief in his existence or substantiated belief in his existence or Word. Faith in the scriptures is the understanding that he will be able to accomplish, provide and follow through with all that he has and does promise.Hence the statements:"The fool has said in his heart there is no God" No blind faith is required to substantiate the obvious"He that comes to God must believe that he is, (then)and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."Worldly concepts of biblical faith are usually based on a misunderstanding of what it is that God wants us to have (blind) faith in. Not that he exists or the scriptures are his word, there is enough evidence for that, but faith that he can keep his promises, even though we cannot see its conclusion presently.Faith should not be understood in the context of deciding whether he exists or not, but in the context of a Father to follow through with his promises. Simple logic and evidence would substantiate the obvious, but faith is required to believe that he will keep his promises no matter what.Paul said "I KNOW in whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which he has promised against that day".You can have all the knowledge there is to have. But:"Without faith it is impossible to please God". He doesnt need or want your understanding of the universe only your trust.D BertotEdited by Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.

The discussion in this thread is focusing on evidence, and even the religious are insisting that their faith is supported by evidence, but in that case you're all using the wrong definition of faith. This is the operative definition from Answers.com: The opening post asks how people can hold beliefs based upon faith even more strongly than those based upon evidence, and the answer we're getting is that those beliefs are not held in the absence of "material evidence." On the contrary, they proudly tout the evidence supporting their beliefs.That's not faith, folks.An example of faith would be having all the evidence against you and sincerely believing anyway.--Percy

OK, Where is this evidence? All thesr works deal in the supernatural so where is the difference?

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

If you would read and understand all the replys I've made to these type statements, you would see your definition of circular reasoning is all wet.Read my lips this time: Allah of the Quran doesn't promise and fulfill this, nor does any other religion in the world.Blessings

I noticed you failed to include the John 6:27-29 verses when you quoted me. The proof that Jesus is Lord is given to those who repent as Peter declared in Acts 2:38.

So did an actual tongues of fire light on your head when you became a Christian? Did you speak in tongues (and yes I know there are different interpretations of what this actually means i.e. foreign languages, unknown language of heaven, etc)?And how do you know that it is of God and not the devil that is decieving you into thinking you are a Christian? And if you give me a biblical scripture again you just adding more layers onto your circular logic.Me- "How do you know the Bible is correct?"
You- "Because the Bible says that I received the Holy spirit when I became a Christian and I did."
Me- "How do you know you are not being decieved?"
You- "The Bible says so"
Me- "How do you know the Bible is correct?"ad infinitimBTW, this is talking about faith and the fallacy of blind faith and circular reasoning it entails.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan