What makes you unbelieve Crash ?

1)accept nothing as fact
2)question everything
3)determine your own truth
4)define your own realityIt's an ongoing process whereby you constantly evaluate data, assimilate it into your perspective and build upon a foundation of previously accumulated and assimilated data...as an example, take leprachauns1)don't accept their existence as fact or fiction just because somebody said it's true or false2)question the validity of their existence by researching, studying, comparing, analyzing, look for answers everywhere and anywhere and not just to prove it but also to disprove it3)based on what you have learnt determine what you believe to be the truth about leprachauns4)the knowledge you now have puts you in the position of being able to define a reality that allows for the existence or not of leprachaunsIf someone else comes up with more data concerning leprachauns assimilate it into your knowledge data base and adjust your truth if neccessary then re define your realityYour truth may differ from somebody elses so here is where faith in your abilities and trust in the process by which you arrived at your truth becomes paramount in being able to speak with confidence about the reality of leprachauns existingas an exercise substitute leprachauns for let's say...GodLastly never think you know the absolute truth or the ultimate reality because your personal perception of truth and reality will only ever be your opinion...this is why a lot of "teachers of truth" failDescartes thought he had arrived at the fundamental truth by stating "I think therefore I am" I think I have improved upon it by sayingI think, I feel , I know, I am right......you may think otherwise so if you think I am wrong then the onus is on you to prove it and I will gladly recantnothing is perfect...

yes, in their minds they are both right but it doesn't matter what they think only what you know, your truth, ie... what you believe is only relative to you and your reality...

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Lastly never think you know the absolute truth or the ultimate reality because your personal perception of truth and reality will only ever be your opinion...this is why a lot of "teachers of truth" fail

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as an example the yanomamo of amazonia believe in a different truth and live in a reality far removed from yours yet it is no less valid than yours but beyond theirs and your truth and reality exists the absolute and the ultimate of which we are still questing for...

My "reality" is my surroundings, work environment, family, culture, language, codes of conduct...etc and the truth I hold is what i know to be able to survive and interact within that. That's what's real to me......now your set of circumstances within which you define your existence may be totally different and your truth if you hold fast to it might not ensure your survival in my realityuse the yanomamo as an example again...

quibbling over semantics and for what purpose ???I have my truth and what is real to me in my world...it's different to what you believe and what's real to yourespect the difference instead of trying to change others to fit your definitions.......and thanx for the advice but I think I'll stick to my own meaning of truth and reality they make more senseBTW would you die in my reality ???...maybe it depends what your truth is..ie what you believeDo american soldiers believe the same as what iraqi terrorists believe ???...NOIs the reality of iraqi life different to that experienced by american soldiers ???...YESAre they dying ???...YESand all this for what ???Is their GOD the same ???...YESCan you successfully convince iraqis of the truth that american style democracy is better for them ???...I doubt itMaybe they'd be better of all sitting round reading the dictionary instead...

yeah sorry bout that JT, I just hate it when words on the screen tell me I need to do something..."Lastly never think you know the absolute truth or the ultimate reality because your personal perception of truth and reality will only ever be your opinion..."or to put it another way...what Melchior saidIt doesn't matter what we believe or what we think is real because we as individuals will never get consensus as only God knows what the absolute truth and the ultimate reality are......I don't mean we create our own reality I mean we define what is real to us based on our personal beliefs. God created the universe we are trying to define itbut anyway I don't see the point in arguing, fighting or warring over personal beliefs...To me it all reduces down to " the golden rule"
Versions of the Golden Rule in dozens of religions and other sources of which you could argue "tit for tat" is also an example
and the "universal law of karma"
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/...
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which dictates your rewards in the grand scheme of things according to how you practise the rule......and they all revolve around free will<<(edited to fix broken link)>>This message has been edited by RingoKid, 05-09-2004 07:38 AMThis message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-10-2004 12:22 AM

Have you interacted with anybody from a radically different culture regarding their personal beliefs and perceptions of reality...someone like an Australian aborigine or an Amazonian indian... do you know what they believe to be real ???...or is your opinion of a personal and subjective nature that requires no proof as it is purely your own perception that matters ???

I know it was directed at Unseul but perhaps this might help rstrats...

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faith in your abilities and trust in the process by which you arrived at your truth becomes paramount in being able to speak with confidence about the reality of leprachauns existing

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so does that invalidate everything anyone else said apart from crash ???I favour dynamic interaction in a group setting as opposed to mere compliance to set rules of engagementit's how things work in real time people come and go and subjects evolve......come back crash and validate my on line existence in this threadoh well, moving right alongas you were

rstrats...

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By arriving at truth do you mean obtaining a belief?

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...yes, determining your "personal" truth, ie... what YOU beleive and thus what YOU know to be true and right even if it flies in the face of conventional wisdom and others beliefsDarwin storm...just because it's a serious site doesn't mean we cant have some fun and oh no, I'm not putting a thread up for review in this forum, it's a case of keeping my mouth shut and letting eveyone think I'm a fool or opening it and proving it...alas methinks it's too late anywayI don't like arguing faith and belief anyway there's no proof and it becomes cyclic so fast. I respect every one's right to hold a different opinion on faith and belief knowing that it's all just opinion and only God knows the absolute truth about ultimate reality...time for a cup of tea methinks