PROOF against evolution

I guess the population records were wrong, then.If there was a population decrease, it wasn't significant. People die now...it isn't showing on the chart.This message has been edited by TheNewGuy03, 06-02-2004 02:36 PM

Actually, there have been a couple times when humans did almost dissappear. For example, there is a bottleneck that seems to have happened about 70,000 years ago where the total world population dropped down to perhaps as low as 10,000 individuals.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

TNG, People died before they reached adulthood much more than they do now, in any culture.If a couple only have two children survive to breed out of ten, then the population remains the same. If all ten die at 70 after having children, then the population explodes.Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Do you think that, according to mathematical calculation, that the population could have gone back to 70,000 years ago? At the rate shown on population charts, the population would have been nearly zero at around 4500 BC.Note: for informational purposes only.This message has been edited by TheNewGuy03, 06-02-2004 02:51 PM

Actually, 70,000 years ago is pretty far along the timeline that modern homosapiens has been around, and almost yesterday when you look at the time there has been living things, even primates, on the earth.When you look at the evidence for life that was already pretty evolved and find that it was here about 3 billion years ago, 70,000 years is literally yesterday.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think you're intentionally ignoring the repeated and well-substantiated argument that growth rates have not stayed the same for thousands of years. Modern food production and medicine have dramatically increased our life span, fertility, and survival to sexual maturity. Human population density has reached plateaus at many points, where further growth was only possible through technological advances - from hunting and gathering to traditional agriculture, and from there to industrial agriculture, for example.To ignore the recent and unique advances that have pushed the growth rate well above historical averages, and simply extrapolate at will, is ludicrous. We know what changed, and how, and when, and we know the results.

According to the evolutionary timeline, humans came into existence during the Pleistocene epoch, approximately 1 million years ago.

Okay, that will do as a start.But let's refine that slightly. Modern humans, some subset of homosapiens probably first showed up around 150,000 years ago.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That's an oldie but not a goodie, from Morris in '74. The major problem, as has been pointed out, is that the population growth rate is not even close to constant and has almost always been much, much lower than it is now.According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the growth rate between 1900 and 2000 was 0.132% per year. Extrapolating that backwards yields 15,500 years to zero population, and is just as meaningless as your 4,500 years.Estimates made by various organizations indicate much lower rates of population growth in the past. See Historical Estimates of World Population.We don't have good census counts from long ago, but we do have some data. For example, Augustine conducted a census of Rome in 28 BCE, and got 70 to 100 million people in the Roman Empire. How many people does your "model" predict were around at that time? Answer: world population of around 600,000. Therefore, there is something seriously wrong with your "model".See Population Size and Time of Creation or Flood and Claim CB620 for more calculations and discussion.

I repeat: plateaus. Inconsistent growth rate. Acknowledge? Please?Frustration level rising....

The alternative explaination is that the population records are correct and the assumption that the growth rate of the human population has been completely uniform over the past 6000+ years is incorrect.To determine the more likely, have a look at how many estimates of population number and birth/death rates would have to be wrong for the former to carry any weight.For example, the best rebuttal of the population argument I've seen is in Micheal Shermer's "Why people believe wierd things", where he points out that if you use the same population extrapolation you would end up with Egypt being populated by a ridiculously small population at a time where the historical records clearly show a flourishing civilisation.

Perhaps even better is this "in Bible" argument: suppose the world population grew from 2 to 2 billion at an even rate, then around Moses' time the entire world population would have been a couple of thousand, where the Bible tells us that Moses led 600.000 men ( & women & children) on the exodus. Thus, even according to the Bible the population growth rate hasn't been the same all the time.

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Het is even onvoorstelbaar dat God wel bestaat, als dat hij niet zou bestaan - C. Buddingh'

I'm not saying that the population growth rate is uniform, but simply constant in the fact that it grows. My data was based on a mathematical calculation and data collected from a population survey.All I'm saying is that if humans were on earth for 600,000 years, then the world would be overpopulated, regardless of any circumstances. For me, Noah's Flood is a possible explanation to why the earth's population is ONLY 6.3 billion, as opposed to the trillions we might have if the earth's population grew from 600,000 years ago. Logically speaking, a natural disaster occurred recently, and only a few people were left from it, and the human population recovered from that.However, I must add that Noah's Flood account isn't the only global Flood account we have. There are other cultures (some which had not seen or heard of the Hebrew nation) that have Flood accounts of their own. Read some Assyrian and other Mesopotamian cultures' literature.

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I'm not saying that the population growth rate is uniform, but simply constant in the fact that it grows.

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Except to do any calculation, you have to know what the rate of growth of the population is at each time in history and pre-history. You can't just assume you know what this growth rate is. The only way you can find this rate of growth is to look at a census of the human population in the past.-

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There are other cultures (some which had not seen or heard of the Hebrew nation) that have Flood accounts of their own.

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Most of these cultures are in regions where large scale flooding is a known phenomenon. And most of these stories differ from Genesis in important points - like the flood is not global, or that the survivors escaped by climbing mountains or tall trees.

Okay, wandering off topic again when you bring up the great wetting that never happened, so if you want to discuss that myth, let's take it over to the right section.The problem with your population calculations is twofold.First, you cannot simply take modern growth rates and run. In the past, conditions were quite different. It has only been in my lifetime that the number one cause of death among women became something other than childbirth. And it has only been slightly over 50 that there have been any antibiotics.Second, we have evidence from the fossil record that things really were around long before your 6000 year figure. And when we look at the fossil record we find that there is a real seperation between when certain types of things lived. We do not find people and dinosaurs living at the same time. We do not find grass growing until pretty recently, but we do find many other types of plants, plants that do not live today. We find a long lineage of primates that EVOLVED into seperate species.We tend to forget that it is only recently that the idea of living a long life has become the norm and not the exception. Through most of history, that was simply not the case.But NOTHING in your post has anything to do with Evolution.I showed you examples of Evolution that are going on right now. We can see Evolution happening just as it has always been happening in plants, animals and even humans. We also have all of the information gathered over the last 100 years or so from the geolocical and fossil records. In addition, newer finding from genetics and DNA studies have simply confirmed and strengthened the picture.I can see NO way that anyone can doubt, even for a second, the Evolution happened, is happening and will continue to happen.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion