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Author | Topic: PROOF against evolution | |||||||||||||||||||
yxifix Inactive Member |
jar:
....and therefore do you see NOTHING can be created by accident without information??? All you are doing is jumping through that information - you want to create something without it ! Even information itself ! Nonsense !
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No, the teacher is not giving information. The teacher is only acting as a filter.
Sorry charlie. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No information has been created yet. But once you admit that all that has happened in my example so far is random chance being filtered, we will proceed to creating information.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Everyone is missing each other in this discussion let me have a try at reconsiling it.
yxifix, understands that the evolutionary process can change and add to the information already in a genome. Therefore he is completely off topic as far as "proof against evolution" goes. However, what he is asking is an abiogenesis question. Given that there is "information" (which hasn't been defined here yet) in the genome how did it get there in the first place? I think yxifix's problem is in the details of what information is. A short strand of RNA has information in it (in the Shannon sense). In fact a two nucliotide sequence has "information". Since it is possible for those to arise by chance this level of information is not so hard to explain. What is harder and is still an open question is how can enough "information" be gathered up to allow for self replication to begin. That seems to not be likely enough to have occured by chance. However, since it is not an evolutionary question perhaps it should be taken to another thread.
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yxifix Inactive Member |
jar writes: No, the teacher is not giving information. The teacher is only acting as a filter.Sorry charlie. He can't act as a filter without information which tells him he will act as a filter. sorry man, you completely missed it once again..
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yxifix Inactive Member |
jar writes: No information has been created yet. But once you admit that all that has happened in my example so far is random chance being filtered, we will proceed to creating information. these are just your fantasies... you probably don't even know what are you talking about now. Well, if you like....why a "chance being filtered" would exist? Why there is no "chance to destroy everything"? The answer is simple, there wouldn't be any...without information that something like that exists. Although you are trying to do everything, you are still using information to create information, jar. It's nonsense. Just think.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nope,no information involved. All the teacher does is say keep this one and make more like it. No info.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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yxifix Inactive Member |
NosyNed writes: yxifix, understands that the evolutionary process can change and add to the information already in a genome. Therefore he is completely off topic as far as "proof against evolution" goes. I'm not saying that changing or creating information from another information is a proof.
However, what he is asking is an abiogenesis question. Given that there is "information" (which hasn't been defined here yet) in the genome how did it get there in the first place? you can call it abiogenesis or whatever else, BUT I'm saying the information is a part of life, it's the beginning of life so that's the most important thing theory of evolution must start with... is it correct ? Is information needed to start whatever processes ? If it is so, how come you can say it's not part of theory of evolution ? Please answer straight to these questions.
I think yxifix's problem is in the details of what information is. A short strand of RNA has information in it (in the Shannon sense). In fact a two nucliotide sequence has "information". Since it is possible for those to arise by chance this level of information is not so hard to explain. Well, I think your problem is in the details of what information is. Tell me about those 2 nucliotide sequences... where that "information" (what you are talking about) came from? Or it just was? Or is it just fantasy and there is not real "information" ? Please answer to these questions clearly.If an "information" can arise itself ....than also a house full of nice furniture can arise itself according to this theory, NosyNed. What is harder and is still an open question is how can enough "information" be gathered up to allow for self replication to begin. That seems to not be likely enough to have occured by chance. No, that's not right The open question is not how can enough "information" be gathered, but how that "information" was created. That's the open question. I would like to read the answer.Than we can carry on what is likely to have occured by chance. However, since it is not an evolutionary question perhaps it should be taken to another thread. Well, this is evolutionary question. (read 2nd answer in this post). without information is not life... life must begin somewhere and that "somewhere" is information itself. I am sure you agree.
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yxifix Inactive Member |
jar writes: Nope,no information involved. All the teacher does is say keep this one and make more like it. No info. Sorry, but you are wrong once again. If there is no information. "imaginary" teacher would do nothing and kid would do nothing they will just "be" [imaginary]. Got it? For each movement they need information.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No, I do not see any information, only a filter.
Please explain what information is involved. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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yxifix Inactive Member |
jar writes: No, I do not see any information, only a filter.Please explain what information is involved. Firstly you must explain why you see only a filter, why don't you see something which destroy everything?
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Kid makes drawings. Teacher says keep that one and make more like it. Nothing defined. No information. Just a filter. The teacher filters out all except a few.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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yxifix Inactive Member |
jar writes: Kid makes drawings. Teacher says keep that one and make more like it. Nothing defined. No information. Just a filter. The teacher filters out all except a few. Why kid makes drawings? Why teacher says keep that one and make more like it? Why they just don't sit and do nothing? Why teacher doesn't destroy everything what kid makes?
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Kid likes playing. Teacher is filter.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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yxifix Inactive Member |
jar writes: Kid likes playing. Teacher is filter. Why kid likes playing?Why filter? Why teacher is not something what destroys everything?
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