May I ask what the heck this little game has to do with PROOF against evolution?

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Because in my example I stated that kid like playing and that the teacher acted as a filter selecting only those drawings that looked like a circle.

No meaning, no information, no why. It is only how.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

He is trying to show that there must be a creator, a designer and things cannot happen by chance. I am attempting to show that random chance when combined with the filter of Natural selection will create evolution.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, I can argue against the ivy-taught evolutionary theory from a CIRCLE but I would have had to have connected TWO TRAINS of thought I have already started. I am not going to mess up the good thinkthing I already have going. I agree with Asgara in general.

Sure... to find out you have to read whole discussion ... at least from the page 18 (when I started this one).

Seems rather futile to me. No matter what is said he will, like a three year old, answer "WHY?"

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

EXACTLY! ! - you stated - YOU SAID SO, SO IT WAS LIKE THAT Do you get it??But who said so at the beginning when there was no human???

the universe when it created everything?

If you don't read this discussion whole, you probably won't understand what I'm talking about now.
So that's right... it seems....

You may be right but in an earlier life I helped raise a passle of younguns (oldest of a passle of kids)

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

what is "universe" then? .... is it some kind of "intelligence"?"universe" = "higher intelligence" ?if you are talking about universe (with galaxies and everything) - then it is absurd. This universe can't say anything because it doesn't exist yet. Your friend won't tell you "Hello" until he exists.This message has been edited by yxifix, 08-11-2004 11:59 AM

Life, death and reproduction.There is no goal or direction to evolution. Changes happen. There are mutations. Most are neutral, have no effect. Some are harmful, and the critter dies. Those changes, the harmful ones, don't get passed on. A few are beneficial, they help the critter live long enough to reproduce. Those get passed on to future generations.Natural selection is the filter. The critter lives long enough to reproduce, or it doesn't.It really is as simple as that.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

maybe it created itself - or do you think that everything needs a creator?

If that's the intent of a code, yes.But codes are not automatically meaningful in themselves. It's often possible to find meaning in things that cannot possibly have it; I reccomend you go cloud-gazing to observe this phenomenon. As much as a cloud might look like a rabbit or Abraham Lincoln, it's ludicrous to suggest that cloud actually contains meaning. No, I agree with it. Genetic codes do not contain meaning; they're part of a mechanical/chemical process that generates protiens.The gene for blue eyes doesn't actually code for blue eyes, remember - it codes for protiens that give rise to blue eyes. That's all genetic codes do - generate protiens. That's not "meaning", that's protien. It's simply a consequence of the laws of physics being the way that they are. There's a gene for blue eyes because certain protiens, when placed in the chemical envrionment of the human iris, reflect blue light.That's just a consequence of the physics of the universe. The gene doesn't "mean" anything, it generates a specific protien. No, there weren't. Let's look at what you said:

quote:

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b) Lets do a small exercise/example. Take a paper. Draw a circle. ...and now... tell me why it is a circle? Why it is not a square?

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You're free to change your examples anyway you like, but please don't misrepresent the situation. I answered the question that you asked. Your original example did not include any of the additional information you have since added. I'm not sure I truly understand.Remember that Percy was explaining how you could get new information from already-existing information through random processes. Percy wasn't trying to address how information entered the universe. Don't fault Percy because you don't understand the question he was answering.

What he's asking is, who instituted the selection pressure; who set up the filters?The answer is nobody. Selection pressures on organisms are consequences of the laws of physics.Why are there laws of physics? That's not a question science can answer; we don't (can't?) know the restrictions on how universes can be created. We don't know that the laws of physics can even be any other way. Maybe these laws are the only laws that can exist, and moreover, maybe they can't not exist.We assume the universe came from nothing but that's just an assumption. For all any of us know it's not possible for a universe to not exist.