Darwin- would he have changed his theory?

PaulK, if there's no last common ancestor, then there's no evolution......

Mammuthus, after reading that, I see no reason to believe that that was the origin of the Atlantis myth.........other than the fact that it was destroyed by flooding (as many other places have been) and was geographically close to Athens.

PaulK, search on the Science Channel's website.........I think the documentary was called "Finding Atlantis", or something.Jack, first life wouldn't have to be as complex as today micro-organisms, but it WOULD have to be incredibly complex (by far more complex than any single evolutionary adaptation).......and it would have to have formed within a relatively short period of time.I forget, how many of just the right amino acids would have to combine in just the right way to make a single protein molecule? At least dozens, if I recall correctly......and then at least dozens of full formed protein molecules would then also have to combine in just the right way.

Dembski puts a ridiculous probability on a single protein molecule forming in the course of a billion years, like 10 to the hundreth power, or something.......

Meow, hissssss!BTW, this only applies to Physics.This message has been edited by SirPimpsalot, 10-22-2004 06:09 AM

I don't have any idea what this means, to be honest........please put this into laymen's terms.But one thing that does jump out at me is that 10 to the power of 11, while not as bad as 10 to the hundreth power, isn't exactly good odds either........and that's just to form ONE protein molecule, correct? I agree.........but I think this fact hurts spontaneous generation theorists, as it shows that there weren't a plethora of of microbes spontaneously generating on early Earth.

Don't know what to tell ya.........but some of the more convincing evidence the man had was that Plato stated that in Atlantis they mined a natural alloy of gold and copper called "orichalcon"......and the only place on Earth where orichalcon is mined.......which is also the only continent west of Greece (like Plato said Atlantis was).......and the only area in the world that matches Plato's geopraphical description of Atlantis is the Alto Plano region of South America. This is very compelling evidence that none of the opponent's of the guy's theory spoke against..........In any case, regardless of whether or not civilization was around during the times of the glacial meltings, that doesn't change the fact that most peoples of the world lived near bodies of water at the time......and that the flooding caused by the glacial melts were a world-wide phenomonon. The stories of the floods could have certainly lived on through oral tradition. I'm suprised this hasn't been identified as Noah's flood before.......But, hey, you might wanna try searhing for "Alto Plano" or "orichalcon"........or maybe a combination of one of those with "Atlantis".

We both know this is nothing in geographical terms........especially when you consider that the following 3.5 BILLION years of evolution couldn't produce anything more complex than a sponge of jelly fish. The DNA of the organism would have to have certain info encoded on it that was placed there just at random.........like how to duplicate itself, how to metabolize........it's like a book writing itself.Maybe there wasn't just one combo of protein molecules that would have gotten the job done, but it's certainly one of a short list.........wouldn't you agree? We have no reason to think that amino acids have natural affinities which favor the creation of life.......and, even if they did, that can't be just a coincidence. Either fact, whichever proves to be true, speaks of intelligent design. If lipids are organic, and therefore made by life, I don't see how this aids the theory of life springing from non-life. This is true, but materialists do, and for all intents and purposes, in this day and age, evolution and materialism are practically synonyms.

I don't know anything about the subject, but apparently not. The orichalcon that's mined in the Andes is actually an alloy of gold, copper and another metal......nickel, maybe.......I forget.........but it's definitely mined on a regular basis. It's official name might not be "orichalcon" though, as this is the term Plato applied to it some 3000 years ago. Plato named a natural alloy of gold and copper that was mined in Atlantis, and the only place on Earth where a naturally occuring alloy of gold and copper is mined is in the Alto Plano region........this is extremely strong proof, IMO.

PaulK, Charles apparently found something on orichalcon.......

MAXIMUM of half a billion years.........for something to happen that has an incredibly slight chance of happening.Like I said, even with natural selection effect, the only thing the next 3.5 billion years after that could come up with was a jelly fish. DNA or RNA, there's still a basic amount of info that they'd have to possess. No, it's probably much more complex........as we can write books today, but we still can't make a machine that feeds and duplicates itself. You did do the math, didn't you? One in 1011 is one in a TRILLION........and that's for the formation of ONE protein molecule..........and then we'd still need, what was the number you quoted? 60 to 100 of those to coincidentally combine in a sequence which produces life........ What is a lipid, anyway? Because I've never heard of anyone coaxing chemicals into forming anything more complex than an amino acid before.

It most certainly had implications for his theory........because it cuts the time evolution had to work down from a potential infinitum to 4 billion years.

It speaks to gradualism........especially in the case of the Cambrian Explosion, which, as far as I know, PE doesn't even explain.

He didn't say taking myth at face value......he said that there was not benefit to applying myth to science at all, if I recall correctly. And he's wrong, as I demonstrated.The ancient, venerated documents have NEVER been proven to be conclusively incorrect in any fashion..........they've only been validated in various ways, like the ones I named.

Obviously they can, since they're mined in the Andes.........this is simply fact. I have no desire to do this. You don't want to believe me, that's up to you.........but even if I WAS just making all this up about Atlantis, it doesn't change the FACT that about 10,000 years ago, the whole world, from an anthropological point of view, was deluged by floods........