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Author Topic:   The ulitmate sin: blasphemy against the Holy Ghost
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 64 of 134 (173800)
01-04-2005 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by commike37
01-01-2005 11:50 PM


Re: Church and State is Everything
Hello commike37
Just two quick statements
commike37 writes:
The healthy family is one where a married couple gives birth to children.
So I guess my first statement is this; my wife and I are happily married and, I have always assumed, quite healthy. But since we do not have, nor plan to have, any children I guess I am mistaken.
My second statement would be actually more of a question. How would a gay couple being allowed to marry have any effect what-so-ever on the health of a family and any children they may have? You do know how babies are made don’t you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by commike37, posted 01-01-2005 11:50 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by commike37, posted 01-04-2005 4:41 PM FliesOnly has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 79 of 134 (174056)
01-05-2005 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by commike37
01-04-2005 4:41 PM


Re: Church and State is Everything
Hi again:
commike writes:
Anyway, there are several possibilities: previous marriage (some homosexuals are open to both hetero- or homo-sexual relationships), adoption (most likely), or even the unexpected result of a heterosexual affair in rare cases.
And since this started with you claiming that the best environment for children is in a heterosexual household, I assume you have strong data showing how poorly children do when they’re in a same sex household. Somehow I doubt that you have the statistics to back this up. However, why don’t you look for the numbers regarding child abuse in your best environmental setting?
Let me ask you this. Would you be ok with a homosexual marriage if no children were involved? I mean, is that your only concern...the "health" of the children. Is that why you are opposed to gay marriage?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by commike37, posted 01-04-2005 4:41 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by commike37, posted 01-05-2005 4:30 PM FliesOnly has not replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 106 of 134 (174342)
01-06-2005 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by commike37
01-06-2005 12:08 AM


Re: Is there really no questioning this?
Commike37
commoke37 writes:
To clarify:
The Judeo-Christian nature defines marriage.
The secular nature promotes the benefits of marriage (under its current definition) by granting political privileges to married people. It does not define marriage.
This hasn’t really clarified it for me, so let me ask you this: Are you proposing that only Judeo-Christian marriages should be recognized in this Country?
And why even mention the health issue? What does it have to do with discrimination? Fineheterosexual marriages result in better health (maybe), so does that mean that only heterosexual marriages should be allowed? Would not it also be good for a single homosexual to get married, so he/she can have the benefits of marriage and thus be, by your own words, more healthy than when they were single?
Do you think that a homosexual male that does what many Christians say he should do (i.e. marry a women anyway cuz it’s the Christian thing to do) would really be more healthy than if he remained single or, God forbid, married another male? Or do you think that a homosexual male should remain single, even though you yourself have repeatedly stated that married couples are healthier? I guess you feel the homosexuals deserve be in poorer health than heterosexuals.
My biggest area of confusion, I guess, is in trying to decipher what exactly you think is Christian about banning gay marriage. I think it’s what Jar has been trying to get from you for quite some time, but has yet to receive an answer. So let me try. If you know that by denying homosexuals the right to marry, you are also going to deny them: A) health care, B) protection from domestic violence, C) access to protection under divorce laws, D) and inheritance rights, then how can you in any way consider your action to be Christian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by commike37, posted 01-06-2005 12:08 AM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by commike37, posted 01-06-2005 5:37 PM FliesOnly has not replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 118 of 134 (174628)
01-07-2005 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by commike37
01-06-2005 6:25 PM


Hi again commike37
Hold on buddy, I’m not letting you off the hook this easily. You have completely ignored the main question.
FliesOnly writes:
My biggest area of confusion, I guess, is in trying to decipher what exactly you think is Christian about banning gay marriage. I think it’s what Jar has been trying to get from you for quite some time, but has yet to receive an answer.
You Replied:
commike37 writes:
The part of marriage where the government hands out marriage licenses and the associated political benefits does not discriminate. These licenses are handed out regardless of what the definition of marriage is. If marriage is heterosexual-only, then heterosexuals get the licenses. If marriage is hetero- and homosexual, then both get the licenses. The agencies that hand out just promote marriage through political benefits. They just check to see that you meet the standards. They don't make standards.
But you KNOW that the main question was as follows (and is the one for which I really want an answer):
FliesOnly writes:
If you know that by denying homosexuals the right to marry, you are also going to deny them: A) health care, B) protection from domestic violence, C) access to protection under divorce laws, D) and inheritance rights, then how can you in any way consider your action to be Christian?
Please oh please oh please answer this for us commike37.
commike37 writes:
To remove the Judeo-Christian standard would take away the sanctity of marriage.
Bull shit. What a big load of homophobic crappola.
commike37 writes:
The part which defines is considered with values.
And by this, what you really mean is that you want YOUR values to be those which will be used to define.
commike37 writes:
Once marriage is defined, this part will promote marriage with some sort of policy (in this case political privileges) regardless of the definition of marriage.
AgainBull shit. If marriage is defined as you (and many other homophobes) want it defined, then it will deny the rights of homosexual couples to be married. As such, these individuals will NOT be allowed to benefit from your rather limited and quite discriminatory political privileges. Why can’t you see this and admit to it?
commike37 writes:
In that way, these two parts remain independent, because it is important not to mix values and policies.
And yet againBull shit. You have completely mixed the two (values and policy). Your values determine the policy. How can you see this any other way? Gays can’t marry, therefore gays cannot benefit from the policies. It’s not rocket science here, commike37

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by commike37, posted 01-06-2005 6:25 PM commike37 has not replied

  
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