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Author Topic:   The ulitmate sin: blasphemy against the Holy Ghost
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 108 of 134 (174509)
01-06-2005 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by commike37
01-06-2005 5:37 PM


You had to establish some sort of standard for marriage.
What's wrong with a standard of "any two unmarried, consenting adults?" You've given us no indication why the current standard is better than this proposed one; you've simply made an argument that the current standard is better than no standard at all.
Well, no shit, genius.
The part of marriage where the government hands out marriage licenses and the associated political benefits does not discriminate.
What? Of course they discriminate. They discriminate in that they don't hand out the licenses to homosexual couples.
The civil government defines civil marriage. Your religion can define marriage however it likes; the only definition of any relevance is the governments, and currently it defines marriage in an unconstitutional manner.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by commike37, posted 01-06-2005 5:37 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Quetzal, posted 01-06-2005 6:02 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 110 by commike37, posted 01-06-2005 6:25 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 115 of 134 (174564)
01-07-2005 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by commike37
01-06-2005 6:25 PM


If you do that, you effectively abolish the Judeo-Christian standard and thus the sanctity of marriage.
And thus nothing. Marriage will still be sancitifed. The Judeo-Christian tradition is not the sole source of what is sanctified and what is not. And so what? Why does the Judeo-Christian standard have to apply to everybody? Especially those who aren't Judeo-Christians?
The problem is, without some sort of standard of sanctity, marriage loses its value.
Here's the standard: "A sanctified social binding between two consenting, unmarried, loving adults."
Again, we're not proposing that standards be abandoned. Simply changed to recognize that homosexual couples are heading families, just like hetero ones. The family is still sacred. We're just getting the government caught up with that.
If gay marriage is passed, many people are going to come up and try to give persuasive rhetoric and extend the homosexual logic to the conclusion that their form of marriage should be recognized, too.
The "homosexual logic" only applies to unmarried couples. How can it be expanded any further than that? Once you have man+man, woman+woman, and woman+man, what other combinations of two unmarried adults are there? None, of course.
Homosexuals have clearly defined what they're against, but they haven't as clearly defined what they're for.
Certainly they have. They're for the privledges of marriage offered to all couples comprised of unmarried, consenting adults. But I guess you just weren't paying attention?
Well that's real civil.
Sorry, I forget that not everyone participates in the level of discourse that me and my friends use. Wasn't trying to insult you, just drive home the point.
The part which defines is considered with values.
Well, I disagree. The government defines civil marriage, because the government defines all government-recognized civil institutions, just like the government defines "corporation", "non-profit charity", etc.
Churches are free to define religious marriage however they like, I don't give a damn. The government is the only group here that matters.
Since marriage should have sanctity, this part considers what values will uphold the sanctity of marriage.
Well, traditionally that's been the values of love, sacrifice, forbearance, sharing, and parenthood. Gay couples have all those values, so why shouldn't they enjoy marriage?
There's no legal argument against gay marriage; there's no moral argument against it; there's no logical argument against it. Despite the best efforts of the conservatives, we're going to have it, and why shouldn't we? It's not like people are going to make other people enter into gay marriages if they don't want to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by commike37, posted 01-06-2005 6:25 PM commike37 has not replied

  
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