The ulitmate sin: blasphemy against the Holy Ghost

sidelined observes:

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Hang on,isn't that the one who got Mary pregnant while she was married to someone else? I always thought that was an odd thing for THG to do?

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So did I. Doesn't this lovely little Bible story make the Holy Ghost sound an awful lot like an incubus?

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I'll address your nonse..., um, argument.commike37 drivels:

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The healthy family is one where a married couple gives birth to children.

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This is what we call a positive assertion. Do you know what that means? It means that, when called upon, you are required to provide evidence to back up the claim. I hereby call upon you to present this evidence.

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Jesus would love homosexuals, but Jesus wouldn't love laws where our tax dollars end up going to pay for homosexual marriage.

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Tax dollars pay for marriages? In what way? This is another assertion I'd like to see the evidence for.Incidentally, gays pay taxes, you know. Do you think that, since you are unwilling to extend to gays the same rights and protections under the law that you enjoy, gays should be absolved from payment of all taxes? Why should they pay into a system that doesn't protect them equally but instead imposes small-minded bigoted restrictions upon them?

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Jesus will still love homosexuals (as he will any "sinner"), but Jesus will still be against the promotion of their practices.

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Another stupid assertion you have no evidence to back up!

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commike37 squirms:

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So yes, marriage does promote a healthy family.

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No, no! That was not your assertion. You said: Not the same thing at all! Provide your evidence or retract the statement.

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Well, how does the government pay for the privileges granted to married couples? That's what taxes are for.

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You said: Two assertions in one, I see I wasn't paying sufficient attention before or I'd have noticed. Specifically, how do tax dollars pay for marriages? More importantly, where does the bible say that modern fundamentalist Christians have the right to speak for Jesus on the issue of tax policy? Where does the bible say that Jesus would be opposed in any way to homosexual marriage?

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Not all of the taxes go to marriage, so they shouldn't be absolved from all payment.

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I gather then that you would support special tax cuts for gays in order to insure that, at any given income level, gays pay at a lower rate since they are denied government protections that are provided only to straights?

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...whether or not homosexuality is a sin?

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That would be the question, yes, but I think we should lay that aside for the moment. We have enough on our plates as it is. You should review the several 'Homosexuality and the Bible' threads which have run here at EvC over the past few months to see if you have anything new to add.

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...can I guess from your quote that you're both liberal and a card-carrying member of the ACLU?

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More libertarian than liberal, but yes I am a proud member of the ACLU.

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Could you provide some evidence yourself?

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No I won't. If you see that I've made a positive assertion for which you wish to see evidence, quote it and ask.

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commike37 writes me:

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Well, it could help if you explain how it's not the same thing.

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is not the same statement as The second statement was your original assertion. When I asked you for evidence, you gave me a thesis in support of the first statement. They're not the same thing. Once again, in the simplest language I can possibly use (read slowly so you don't miss anything): SUPPORT THE ASSERTION OR RETRACT THE STATEMENT!There is much more in your post that begs a response, but I see the need to keep you focused on one specific task: supporting this particular assertion: Do you understand the task you have at hand now?

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SoulSlay writes:

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The Bible takes a very clear stance on homosexuality...

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Does it indeed? That's funny, we've had scores of threads on this very topic, many which ran to over 300 posts, yet so far no one has been able to present this very clear biblical stance on homosexuality.

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Tal writes:

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Homosexuals are NOT discrimated against in terms of marriage! They are just as free as you or I to marry a member of the opposite sex anytime they choose.

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And thus live a lie. That's an interesting (though hardly surprising) "lifestyle" for a christian to advocate.

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Tal writes:

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That's not my point.

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Irrelevant. It's the effect of your point.

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I am refering to homosexuals being discriminated against with regards to marriage. They are not.

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Yes they are. You say that homosexuals have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex knowing full well that the homosexual will have to live a lie in order to exercise his or her right to marry. Heterosexuals, however, are allowed to marry the person of their choice, no lying required. That violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. You do know what the 14th amendment is, don't you?

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Tal writes:

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Lying has nothing to do with this example of discrimination.

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Yes it does, because in order to take advantage of the right some people would be required to lie while others would not. That's discrimination. You're using precisely the same logic that was used to outlaw interracial marriage: black people could marry anyone of their own race, same as white people.

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Tal bleats:

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White Person A: Has the right to marry a member of the opposite sex.

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Black Person B: Has the right to marry a member fo the opposite sex.

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Today this is true. But just a few decades ago it wasn't. Even back then, blacks and whites had the same marriage rights: everyone was free to marry a member of their own race. Marriage laws were changed to accomodate those who didn't want to live by someone else's moral code in violation of the fourteenth amendment.

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Tal writes:

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Then your recourse is to have your representatives amend the constitution.

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So long as the 14th amendment isn't overturned via this new amendment, then changing the constitution is not necessary. A court ruling will do just fine, just as a court ruling ended the miscegenation laws.

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And was it really in the constitution that interracial marriage was a no/go?

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No, it was laws in certain states, just as it is now regarding gay marriage.

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commike37 writes me:

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...you say that my first and second assertions are different, but you do not explain how they are different.

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A rudimentary command of English words and grammar is required for meaningful communication. If you can't tell the difference in those two statements then I'm afraid there's no point in continuing this dialogue. I'm sorry to have wasted your time.EDITED to correct my own grammar.This message has been edited by berberry, 01-04-2005 02:25 AM

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LinearAq asks:

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What about the Baptist stance on the Gift of Tongues? They say it is from Satan and the sects that use it are deceived. The sects that use Tongues say it is from the Holy Spirit directly.

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I see this as the potential salvation of America as we know it! There are lots of these delicious little differences in various fundie sects. To a Baptist, the Pentecostals are going to hell because they speak in tounges. To the Pentecostals, the Baptists are going to hell because they don't. To the Catholics, the Baptists AND the Pentecostals AND the Lutherans AND the Anglicans, etc., etc., etc. are ALL going to hell because they're not Catholic.Maybe what we should do is try to highlight the differences between these groups and get them fighting against each other. Here's a plan: instead of filing a suit (or perhaps in addition to filing a suit) next time there's a prayer at a high school football game, have your wife dress up like a Pentecostal and drag her along while you go meet with the school principal and insist that, after the prayer, one minute be set aside for speaking in tounges.This message has been edited by berberry, 01-05-2005 02:09 AM

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