Tom, Jupiter was also one of the easily visible objects that had been studied for milenia. Since it was a primary GOD for the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Greeks and just about every other civilization it was one of the most studied stelar objects.I had an idea you were basing all your stuff on the Griffith material. And it's an interesting table if it wasn't so prosaic. Frankly, the incidents were all No Big Deal. Remember, Jupiter is one of the most studied stelar objects visible to the unaided eye.In addition, it's a hodgepodge of unrelated observations. Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Mars and Mercury were all well known objects. Like Jupiter, they too were studied closely and associated with GODs.God stuff is serious stuff.When it comes to understanding GODs you better get it right. That means you observe every single night. And you keep records. And you make predictions. And you know where your GOD is at all times.Sorry, but the whole Jupiter was the Star of Bethlehem is just silly.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

lfen, Lucifer is simply another name that Satan has been called, like Santa Claus.

jar, Jupiter is not a God, its just a light in the sky that God used for a sign. The wisemen recognized the sign, and brought gift to our Lord God and Savior in Bethlehem the city of his prophecied birth. A wandering star moves as the earth goes in orbit around the sun, it led the wisemen to Bethlehem where it stopped on December 25th 2 B.C. above where the young child was. (kjv Luke 2:9).

Yeah, right. LOLTell that to the Egyptians, Persian, Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks, Indians, Chinese and almost every other ancient civilization.Of course that is also totally irrelevant. If they were wisemen, they knew all about Jupiter and it would never have been something extraordinary. They would have known about and been able to predict all of the things listed in the Griffith list.Only the very uneducated would see anything surprising in Jupiter's appearance, position or visibility. So maybe it was the Three Stupidmen?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar, It was the totality of all the Planetary Conjunctions, 19 May, 3 B.C., to 25 December, 2 B.C. that was the basis of the Wisemen making the long journey, from the east. The wandering stars don't normally line up in these Planetary Conjunctions as they did from 19 May 3 B.C. to 25 Dec 2 B.C. its a rare phenomenom.Its quite interesting that astronomers today are well aware of this Planetary Conjunction and that Jupiter was shining on Bethelehem in the year of the Lord's Jesus Birth. Mica 2 is the prophecy of the Lords birth being in Bethelem.kjv Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.http://www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htmThis message has been edited by Tom, 01-18-2005 00:08 AM

Tom, I'm telling you that isn't all that big a deal. For example there is a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn every twenty years or so, between Jupiter and Venus up to three times a year.The others are similarly common. Nope, not really. It's no big deal. It would have been a common predictable event even 3000 years before Jesus was born.

Boring!

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar, Its quite interesting because the testimony of the wisemen that the star stopped over Bethlehem. Using this boring astronomy fact, puts the year of the Lords birth to be 2 B.C. Now that is quite interesting.

Oddly enough there was a program on the BBC over Christmas about the Wise Men (Magi). Thinking about it, Christmas... Wise Men... I suppose it wasn't that odd it was on It had various interesting theories and bits of historical information about the Magi - who they were, where they came from, why they came to Bethlehem and so on. This included a theory proposed by professional astronomer and amateur coin collector Micheal Molnar (his site will explain the significance of the coin collecting).He uses boring astronomy facts along with even more boring coin related facts to come up with a date of 6 BC for the birth of Jesus.Now that is quite interesting - and just goes to show there's more than one date you come up with using astronomy/astrology Which is right ? Are any of them right ? Personally I neither know nor care.

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Confused ? You will be...

I found a Latin Vulgate online. I couldn't find Sirach in Latin.I looked up the verses from that web page: The only ones that truly use lucifer are: and our favorite Now the line just before Job 38:32 is: Here are the same two lines in KJV (Job 38) The proper names are capitalized. Now if this is an accurate representation of the Latin Vulgate, we see that "lucifer" wasn't capitalized in any of the latin verses.Now look at our line in Isaiah: The translators in 1611 made a proper name out of a word that wasn't a proper name in the Latin Vulgate.Origen (185-254AD) and Tertullian (155-After 220 A.D.) seem to have promoted the extended tales of Satan.Jermone wrote the Vulgate (382-405AD) by translating the Greek into Latin. I don't see where he used the Hebrew.Greek for "morning star" as you know is "phosphoros" which was also the word used in 2 Peter 1:19. The KJV 1607-1611 - 54 scholars used the original Hebrew and Greek and they used previous translations.So Jerome translated "phosphoros" as "lucifer" in both Isaiah and 2 Peter and neither as a proper name.The KJV group made "lucifer" a proper name in Isaiah, but not in 2 Peter.Was their translation of Isaiah based on the ancient Hebrew, prior translations or influenced by the tales of Satan which were based on various Bible verses?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

I'm glad you returned to that gem.The Star Stopped over Bethlehem? Is that correct?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That is a nonsensical statement. It may well be that Jupiter was "stationary" among the background stars on that date - and would appear so from anywhere on Earth. Bethlehem is a little west of due south of Jerusalem, so the normal nightly motion of the sky would make it appear to be "over" Bethlehem for an hour or so on any night in any year that it was visible - but NEVER stationary.And besides, Tom, haven't you already demonstrated that December 25 is out as a possible date for the birth?

Shhhh.. Don't confuse him with his own arguements..

Coragyps, The bible says it went before the wisemen till it came and "stood over" where the young child was.kjv Matthew 2:9 Said: When they had departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. The lord it says was already a young child when the Wisemen brought their gifts and worshipped the Lord. kjv Matthew 2:9-11.Jupiter was the end of the Planetary conjunctions starting May 19th 3B.C. and ending with Jupiter being stationary over Jerusalem on Dec 25 2 B.C. Its the star that Astonished the World, that you celebrate in a manger scene with the star above.The Word says the star stood over where the young child was, and the Griffith Observatory confirms the wandering star Jupiter was the Planet that remained stationary over Bethlehem as observed from Jerusalem on Dec 25th 2B.C.http://www.gods-kingdom.org/...ee%20from%20Caesar%20AugustusThe Star That Astonished the World and used by permission from the Griffith Observatory.Planetary Conjunctions, 19 May, 3 B.C., to 25 December, 2 B.C.25 Dec., 2 B.C.
Jupiter stationary over
Bethlehem, as viewed from JerusalemThis message has been edited by Tom, 01-18-2005 11:15 AM

They are mistaken, or, more likely, your source has misinterpreted what they said. The statement "remained stationary over Bethlehem as observed from Jerusalem" is nonsense. It can't happen. It didn't happen.

but jupiter isnt a star........ yet If god made the universe surely he would have know the difference?