how can any one religion make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth?

Well, that sounds better than a straight up no, I'll take it.I am suprised, that you never responded to what I said about you and your horse.

Well, isn't that special. Now we are attacking the word proof.Well prove only works when you need to do it, but not when you need to prove God?

I am not picking and choosing. If I believe in God, that does not make me religious. People who believe in God are theists: That does not make you religious. If I use the bible to find God, It makes me religious, because I am using the belief's of those who wrote it to find the truth, but it does not have any specific religion tied to it. Unless you just want to use the word Christianity, but that only means that I believe in Jesus, not any specific religion. It should be all the same, but its not, and that is a short coming of man. I didn't pick it, it was a link in websters, so it was in caps. It only means that you are aware of your religious beliefs, not that you are aware of God. Thats not the question here. The question is how to find the truth. The question to ask most people here, is how did riverrat find the truth, through what religion. No-one here could answer that until now. Believeing in God and religion are 2 different things.Most people here in this forum would agree. Most people, regardless of what any dictionary says, see religion as the organization of people with their own set of rules on how to go about the worship of God. That's called tradition.So what If I belonged to a church where we let God make the rules? What if I wanted to know something, I would just ask God, and not refer to my religion?Yes, I am religious, yes I belong to a church, and it has a label. But that is not how I came to know the truth, which is what this thread is about.Initially when searching for the truth, I didn't believe in Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I did ask him into my life at one point in a search for the truth. 5 years later he smack me upside the head and showed me just how real he is.You see Jesus promised us the Holy Spirit. It is to be our guide in life, our consuler: Can I get a witness? Look at the word witness in Acts 1:8. What does that word mean? When I experienced the Holy Spirit, I became a witness. I chose to follow God's ways, and now the Holy Spirit is in my life everyday. I use him as my guide in life.But in my journey to find the truth, I wasn't following a religion. Yes, yes. 100% true. I used portions of all those books to help me find the truth. So should you. If you read something in one of those books, and it doesn't make sense to you, you should go and let someone who represents that religion, and have them explain it to you.It is by that method that we can determine where the truth lies. But careful, as this is where the deception can occur. You must follow your heart. God put his laws in the minds and hearts of everyone, remember that.I did not come to fully believe in the truth until the truth came down and hit me like a ton of bricks. I was just minding my own business, more or less. I wasn't really searching for God, any harder than most people do. I was contempt right where I was. I believed in a lot of the morals of the bible, but that did not mean I knew the truth. If you understand the verses I put to you here in this reply, and what I am saying about the promise that Jesus made us, and the Holy Spirit, and you understand that the Holy Spirit is the truth. That is half the battle. Now all you have to do is seek him alittle, or ask him to come into your life. Remember the prayer earlier in this thread?Once you experience the Holy Spirit, you will come to know the truth.
You don't need a religion. So you do understand, that is good.

I must not be getting e-mails when people reply to me This is what I am saying. There is no real way to prove it. If there is, I really don't know what it is, and if I did claim to know, you guys would rip it apart anyway.You see, there is the theory of Love (TOL) then there is Love, the fact, then there is the overwelming evidence of Love.When does it all end?
Whats next, Love in a petri dish, oops I forgot, artificial insemination.True Love is everlasting, and it is not selfish. How can we prove Love without time?

100% correct Schraf.But I did not study only Christianity to find the truth. I studied mostly Christianity, and the truth came and got me.So what religion do we study to find the truth?

Not ever if your life would you be able to do that with me.
You ability to keep missing the point is truely amazing, both you and schraff.I have confessed over and over, that I am a Christian. My chruch is non-denominational.I have studied all religions, and through that study, have found the truth.There are "truths" in all religions.The bible contains 2 "religions".The truth is in your heart, not the bible or religion.The truth is in lies, for once we find out they are a lie, we can then see the truth.The truth is a being, your friend, and your guide.I know its fustrating for you to undersatnd, because all you want to do is pick me apart, or pick a certain religion apart, and say, it cannot be true because of this or that. but so far, everytime I have seen someone in this forum try to pick apart Christianity, it is really directed towards man, not God.People here mostly accuse God, when it is really man that is to blame for mis-conceptions about God.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 01-29-2005 06:25 AM

Thank you.I think scraf would be my witness to me admitting several times in this forum to being wrong. Something I have seen no-one else do, even when they were dead wrong.I am a busy fellow, so I do not have all the time in the world to read the whole thread sometimes, and I limit myself to people who reply to me.The gall of ohn to think that he could cause "that kind of conflict" in me, or anyone else, is truely amazing. That whole statement he contradicts himself. First he is claiming to be all powerful causing human, then he is humble enough not to do it (which he does try to anyway).I am way ahead of him. It is human nature to doubt. The only thing you guys do not understand is why.

Yes, does that make it the truth? Yes, does that make it truth? No, and yes.
The word of God can be found through reading the bible.
The word of God was preached and studied for 300 years before the bible was even made. so the bible is not 100% neccesary to come to know the truth, but it can be a helpful tool for you.
There is no belief system, just truth.
God Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the truth.You come to know them by asking, and seeking, even if you have to read other religious documents. Some people even come to know the truth by not reading those documents, and just being prayed for, in mission trips. Yes, they are preaching the gospel, but how can after only a few moments of preaching, and then some praying can people be overwelmed with the truth, and experience a feeling like no other before in their lives? Then continue that forever? Correct. You do not need a religion to experience the truth. The truth holds the religion, not the other way around. Yes. Religion is open to error. Show me one Christian religion that follows the bible, or God's word to the "T".Religion is only man's interpretation of the God's holy word, there-for subject to error. We constantly make the mistake of looking for God in religion, man, woman, science, and I'm sure a few other things, but only one thing is perfect, and that is God almighty. Only one thing is true, that is God almighty. Only one thing can save you at the end of this life, and that is God. From my very first reply, I stated:

quote:

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I am going to let you off the hook. The truth lies within yourself. Seek and ye shall find it. Pray to God, he will give you the answers. Listen when you pray also. Listen to your thoughts. God is love, truth is love.

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But you insist on trying to put down my religion. I could give a rat's ass what you think of my religion. I do however care about what you think about God.Has my message changed throughout this entire thread?

Beautiful. But if everyone's actions did not conform to the wrttien word, then is it the word, or the people behind those actions?

Weeeeeeeeeeee, lets have a million god's, why not, lol. Do religions have a problem with other god's, or does God have a problem with other god's? Well if your Christian, and you initiate the battle, then your not really being Christian are you? Christian's should technically be able to co-exist with all other religions. It's when your religion starts telling you to kill all others who don't believe in it, there is a problem.Tell me, you think there is truth in that?

No, the point is that you seek the truth. Yes, which goes back to my original statement:

quote:

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I am going to let you off the hook. The truth lies within yourself. Seek and ye shall find it. Pray to God, he will give you the answers. Listen when you pray also. Listen to your thoughts. God is love, truth is love.

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Yes, mans interpretation of the truth is open to error. I am not perfect, you are not perfect. Only the truth is perfect. I know the truth, and the truth knows me. Can I explain to you how to come to know this truth? I can try, thats all. I can pray for you, I do.
I give you all my blessings.

quote:

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I am going to let you off the hook. The truth lies within yourself. Seek and ye shall find it. Pray to God, he will give you the answers. Listen when you pray also. Listen to your thoughts. God is love, truth is love.

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Would you not agree, that the way to communicate with God, and the truth would be through prayer?

That's Old Testament. More of a Jewish way of thinking.Isn't it obvious Christ doesn't want us to think like that?

Yes absolutly. But the chance to me is more like my interpretation of the truth clouded by by my sinful way of thinking. There is always room for improvment in my faith, in my life, and in the way God wants me to be. I am no better than youThis does not invalidate the religion, or the bible, and definately does not invalidate the truth.

Not one single person on this earth is perfect, but one, Jesus. He is the role model of how we are supposed to be.What you are doing here is the classic mistake by many people, including myself at one point in my life. Another classic mistake, the old "if God exists, why doesn't he come down and tell me cry". I also used to think that way.Well he did send his son to die for our short comings, isn't that the biggest sacrafice a God could make for us? He sent him so that we may know him. If we keep denying he exists, and ignore how he wants us to be, then of course you will not get an e-mail from him.When I came to know him, I then realized just how many times he came for me. I was too involoved with things of this world to see it clearly. Or I would say "that's not God", and rationalize it with one thing or another. I would make many exuses as to why God doesn't exist. and also why I shouldn't follow his ways.

Yes. To be more specific, I care about you. Yes.