how can any one religion make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth?

I don't believe that any one religion CAN make the claim to being the fundamental truth.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Isn't that true of all GODs?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not really.There are a few other possibilities.There might be a GOD or even many GODs but all religions are wrong.Or there might be only one GOD and one true religion, but it is impossible to determine which of the myriad religions is the right one.Or there might be a multitude of GODs and each of the religions is right.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why?we were talking about how you could tell if a GOD was real and you had said and I responded, Can any decisions be made based on what a GOD says?Don't all GODs say they are real?Are their GODs that claim not to be a GOD? Is there anyway that any of those possibilities could be eliminated or confirmed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why? Bear with me please.You say, "Only to the satisfaction and belief of the individual." But that has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of a GOD or GODs. Correct?You asked, "That is why I asked you to tell me how many were in your heart." What could that say about the actuality of GOD or GODs?Then you went on to say, "The relevance of your answer, which you may keep to yourself, by the way, is a personal and awesome matter!"In what way? Again, what does that have to do with the existence or non-existence of a GOD or GODs?The point I've tried to make fairly consistently here is that the answer to either of those questions relates only to religion and belief systems, not to the actuality of a GOD or GODs. IMHO it is both futile and counter-productive to try to determine if "any one religion can make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth."We tend to get involved in these discussions quite regularly and IMHO it turns us away from the very things that religion and belief systems CAN do well.We need to find ways to live together, to try to make each life a little better, to help stamp out hunger, to fight disease, to oppose violence, to increase individual rights and opportunities, to increase education and knowledge. Effort that gets diverted to deciding if Brand A is better than Brand B simply decrease the available effort that could be spent on more productive endeavors.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Nope, just a Christian.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

When my daughter was in the second grade or so she began having real doubts about Santa. Other kids at school told her he wasn't real and that parents brought all the presents.That year the one thing she wanted most was a BIG KIDS bike. The little pink and white Barbie Bike simply wouldn't do anymore. She was too grown up.We were heading north to spend Christmas with family. We packed the car and since she was a big girl, I sent her back to make sure all the lights were out, everything turned off, to bring all the presents out from under the tree so we'd have them with us Christmas morning and that the doors were locked. Like the big girl she was she hauled out every package except one that was too heavy to lift, checked every light, the stove, the tv, the back doors and reported when all was done. I sent her back with the key to lock the front door and check it so no one could get in and then off we went.Christmas morning dawned and there was the usual rush for presents. She got her share and maybe a few more, but there were no presents for her from Santa. And no BIG KIDS BIKE.Eventually, we found a note addressed to her on the mantle. It said: Well, the rest of the visit couldn't end soon enough. When we pulled up in the driveway she was out of the car before we fully stopped. She ran to the door and peaked in the sidepane. There were some packages under the tree, the tree she had inspected herself, and a bright, new Schwinn 21,000 speed BIG KIDS BIKE.After that the other kids had a very hard time convincing her that there was no Santa Claus.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The question is "how can any one religion make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth?"Now you may think that Christianity has the answer or the truth. But what you need to show is

1. why you think one religion can claim to be true?
2. why you think your choice can claim to be true?
3. why you think any other religion can not make such claims?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Now come on LB. You have to know that it was the Bible that was the primary justification for slavery and considering certain races as inferior. Christianity has always considered non-Christians as savages and beneath contempt. Just look what happened during the Age of Exploration. Are you going to try to tell us that what happened to the South American natives, the North American Indians, the Hindu and Buddhists in India, what happened in Africa were the result of the TOE?That even continues today. We had posts right here recently from Christians related to the Tsunami saying that it was more important to save souls than to feed, cloth or succor.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yet you do exactly that with your characterisation of the TOE. In addition, you characterize th ebehavior of the Nazis to the TOE even though they themselves said they were acting in the name and spirit of Christianity.My point is, it was not the TOE that classified races or assigned relitive merit to them. It was Christianity. Of course, it was those very writings that served as the basis for slavery and predjudice. The Bible can most certainly be used to justify such acts and in fact, was so used.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm sorry but those are just nonsense phrases. There is no meaning in there at all.In addition, they do not answer the question. Even if "God is truth, Jesus is truth, and the Holy Spirit is truth." you have offered no support for such an assertion. Since it is statements such as those that form the basis of religion, what possible reasons can you have for believing the above is true?What possible reasoning do you have to believe the above excludes any other GOD or GODs?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

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jar said:
Christianity has always considered non-Christians as savages and beneath contempt.

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to which Oh, it was most definitely Christianity. Still is.

quote:

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jar had said:
We had posts right here recently from Christians related to the Tsunami saying that it was more important to save souls than to feed, cloth or succor.

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to which riVeRraT replied: It's pretty hard to misunderstand a direct statement and yes, they said it as expressing Christian belief and doctrine.Lots of Christians like to disavow behavior that does not fit within their particular momentary view of Christianity by saying, "Well, they aren't (or weren't) real Christians. That's a cop out and down right dishonest.The fact is that Christianity as practiced is often quite exclusionary. If you listen to any of the Televangelists, they are bigots and extremely exclusionary. Just listen to Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Gene Scott, and particularly Paul Crouch and the whole TBN retirement home for snake oil salesmen and training ground for future hucksters.You are very right that none of what those folk do reflects the beliefs or behavior of Jesus, but Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. They do reflect a vast and growing Christian Fundamentalist movement that is little different from any other fundamentalist religious movement like the Taliban.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

and I'd like to explore it slightly further.This also may tie in with another discussion going on relating ER to PR.I think we need to distinguish between the issue of GOD and religion. Whether or not there is a GOD or GODs is totally independant of what belief systems exist. Regardless of what anyone believes, if there is a GOD, GOD will exist. Even if 100% of the people were Atheists, the GOD would still be there.On the other hand, if there is no GOD, even if 100% of the people believed in some GOD, that GOD would not exist.When it comes down to issues of Fundamental Truth, the only possiblity is to examine ANY belief system in relation to the world around us and coexistence. If a belief system works then it can be said to be true. This is religion. Religion can only be judged based on the actions and behavior of those that embrace it.Many people confuse GOD and religion. When certain of their personal practices are challenged, they take that as an attack on GOD. Instead, it would be more appropriate to look at what is being said about their religion itself. Are there certain practices, actions, attributed to a given religion that run counter to coexistence?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That really has things backwards IMHO.If the actions of the people work in the world around us and aid in coexistence and those actions are consistent with some written word, then that written word may be truth.If the actions of the people are consistent with some written word but do not work in the world around us or promote coexistence, then the written word is not truth.If the actions of the people work in the world around us and aid in coexistence and those actions do not conform with some written word, then the written word is not truth.It's not the written word that determines truth but the reality of actions.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I know that's what you're saying.Please explain how truth determines the written word.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion