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Author Topic:   how can any one religion make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth?
wmscott
Member (Idle past 6278 days)
Posts: 580
From: Sussex, WI USA
Joined: 12-19-2001


Message 9 of 302 (176578)
01-13-2005 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
01-12-2005 7:12 PM


In their greed for money they will trade on your credulity with sheer fabrications."
Dear Ohanhia;
I read your opening post with interest, I wrote something on the same subject in the last chapter in my book; "Solving the Mystery of the Biblical Flood", and explained how to solve the paradox you present.
This book was written to prove that the biblical flood happened and thus show that the Bible is historically accurate, confirming it as a trust worthy guide to live one's life by. However considering the fact that so many of mankind's problems have a religious cause due in large part to the multitude of conflicting religions in the world today, a little more specific information is needed to avoid wasting one's time and possibly even one's life on a course that may literally turn out to be a dead end. I also feel a responsibility to provide some guidelines which will hopefully prevent anyone from trying to use this book to gain support for things contrary to the word of God. Pointing out some basic Bible teachings will be helpful, since those who would gather followers after themselves never really follow the word of God, they always end up following the word of man.
Some basic guidance is certainly needed, for far too many people today the Bible is a mysterious book they are completely unacquainted with and as we discovered in finding the flood, many of the things people have been told the Bible teaches are actually contrary to the word of God. There is such a total disagreement over what the Bible teaches that one has a better chance of receiving sound legal advice in a shoe store, than receiving a biblically correct answer from a random Christian religion. Clearly one has to read the book for one self and discern whether the would be guides are even following God's word. All Christian religions claim to follow the Bible and most claim all their doctrines are based on scripture. But it doesn't take much effort to blow these paper boats right out of the water. Some Christian religions are so far removed from what the Bible really teaches that they are Christian in name only. Many have deviated so far from what Christians are supposed to be, that they have given Christianity itself a bad name. The history of some of these religions is a violent history written in blood. This turning away from the right course and following a path so evil that it brings reproach on all who would follow Christ, was foretold in the Bible. "In the past there were also false prophets among the people, just as you also will have false teachers among you. They will introduce their destructive views, disowning the very Master who redeemed them, and bringing swift destruction on their own heads. They will gain many adherents to their dissolute practices, through whom the way of truth will be brought into disrepute. In their greed for money they will trade on your credulity with sheer fabrications." 2 Peter 2:1-3 (REB)
Looking around the world today at the conduct of many so called Christian religions and their followers, we see this scripture is certainly being fulfilled to the letter. From the hypocrisy and the immoral conduct of individual Christians to the evil acts of many major religions in shedding blood in wars they have condoned or sanctioned and sometimes even caused. From the immoral to the evil, many have done much to darken the name of Christ. Clearly one has to be extremely carefully about embracing a religion that seems to be following the Bible and looks righteous, but really may not be what it appears. "Such people are sham apostles, confidence tricksters masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder! Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, so it is easy enough for his agents to masquerade as agents of good. But their fate will match their deeds." 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (REB)
When you follow someone or join a group, you have also accepted part of the responsibility for their actions. If we don't approve of the group's actions and yet remain a member, we are still giving them our support and are partly to blame for anything they may do. So it is very important to know how to find out whether a religion is actually following the Bible or not. The quickest and easiest way to spot Christian religions that have obviously taken a wrong turn, is to look at their actions. Christ said we could judge a tree by its fruits. Looking at the historic actions and present day conduct of some religions, we see many things that are in clear contradiction with Christian principles. This simple test would eliminate most so called Christian religions from consideration.
To pick out the truth, or the one religion that actually follows the Bible, will take a more detailed investigation. To be true followers of Christ, a religion's teachings must be in harmony with the Bible. All Christian religions claim their teachings are based on the Bible, but a close look reveals blatant contradictions. The most common conflict with scripture is on the condition of the dead. The Bible states that the dead are unconscious, that death is a state of nonlife or nonexistence. "But for anyone who is counted among the living there is still hope: remember, a live dog is better than a dead lion. True the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing." Ecclesiastes 9:4-5 (REB)
Basically God's word states that when you die, you die, your one hope is a resurrection from the dead. The idea that part of us lives on after death is not taught in the Bible, but was a part of ancient pagan religions and it is from this non-Biblical source that this belief came from. The Bible clearly states that the soul or life, of a person dies at that person's death. "Human beings and beasts share one and the same fate: death comes to both alike. They all draw the same breath. Man has no advantage over beast, for everything in futility. All go to the same place: all came from the dust, and to the dust all return." Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 (REB) "The Lord God formed a human being from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living creature." Genesis 2:7 (REB) "Dust your are, to dust you will return," Genesis 3:19 (REB) That is the meaning of the expression "from to dust to dust," the first man Adam has created from the dust of the earth and when we die we go back to the dust. Adam didn't exist before God created him, so when he returned to the "dust," he returned to his earlier state, nonexistence. According to the Bible righteous people who die, enter a state of nonexistence until they are later resurrected. Since they are not aware of anything while in this state, they are sometimes referred to as being asleep.
"Everyone was weeping and lamenting for her. He said, 'stop your weeping; she is not dead: she is asleep'; and they laughed at him, well knowing that she was dead." Luke 8:52-53 (REB) The young girl was sleeping in death until Jesus resurrected her, she was not experiencing anything nor had she gone anywhere. The Bible confirms this by the fact that Christ died for our sins and he described himself as the resurrection and the life. It is only because of his sacrifice that we have the hope of a resurrection. Those who have died will rest until Christ resurrects them to life. The apostle Peter preached that, "For it was not David who went up to heaven;" Acts 2:34 (REB) and the apostle Paul preached the same. "As for David, when he died and was gathered to his fathers, and suffered corruption; but the one whom God raised up did not suffer corruption." Acts 14:36-37 (REB) King David, a righteous man, did not go to heaven when he died, but is sleeping in death awaiting a resurrection. This is why 1 Corinthians 15:20 states: "But the truth is, Christ was raised to life-the firstfruits of the harvest of the dead." (REB) The firstfruits are first, Jesus Christ was the first one resurrected to heavenly life. No one was raised to heavenly life before Christ, he was first and it was only by his sacrifice that a resurrection to heaven is possible. Hence, none of the righteous people who died before Christ opened the way, went to heaven. All of these people and many others are awaiting a future resurrection on earth when the righteous and unrighteous are to be raised. The fact that many people, including all those who died before Christ, will receive a earthly resurrection makes sense when you consider the fact baptism and being born again with holy spirit is required of all those going to heaven. "Jesus answered, 'In very truth I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he has been born again.' . . . Jesus answered, 'In very truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born from water and spirit.'" John 3:3-5 (REB) Lacking being born again, none of the pre Christian faithful servants of God are going to heaven. They looked forward to a resurrection in a paradise earth. That is why at Luke 23:43 Jesus tells the man hanging next to him, "Truly I tell you: today you will be with me in Paradise." What Jesus was telling him is that once his kingdom began to rule over the earth, Jesus would raise him to life in the restored paradise conditions his rule will bring to the earth.
The meek inherit the earth, but only those born again by water (being baptized as a follower of Christ) and by spirit (chosen by anointing with holy spirit to rule with Christ in his kingdom) will receive a heavenly resurrection. All other resurrections are earthly resurrections that will take place during Christ's thousand year rein. "Martha said to Jesus, 'Lord, if you had been here my brother would not have died. Even now I know that God will grant you whatever you ask of him.' Jesus said, 'Your brother will rise again.' 'I know that he will rise again', said Martha, 'at the resurrection on the last day.' John 11:21-24 (REB) Martha was a disciple or follower of Jesus and had been taught personally by him. She knew about the resurrection and when it would take place. She also knew her brother would sleep in death until that day. Jesus then went on to resurrect her brother Lazarus demonstrating that his father had given him the authority to raise the dead. There are many interesting things recorded in the Bible that we can learn much from considering. We can also learn much from the things that are not recorded and the reasons why they do not appear in the scriptures. For example, once Lazarus was raised, we fail to find his report of what happened to him. If he had experienced anything worth reporting, it would be in the Bible for us to read about and strengthen our faith. But instead we fail to find a single word from Lazarus saying anything about the experience of death. All we have are Jesus' words that Lazarus was asleep and he was going to wake him up. From Lazarus' viewpoint, one moment he was dying and the next he woke up covered in bandages. There was nothing in between, he has asleep in death and didn't experience anything, which is why he had nothing to report.
God is just and he is fair, all men have the opportunity of gaining everlasting life, Christ died for everyone. Considering God's perfect justice and wisdom, the doctrine of immortality of the soul makes no sense. For what would be the fate of the many who lived before Christ was even born and who never had the opportunity to hear the good news? Many did not even worship the True God, they lived in ignorance so when they died, if the soul was immortal, where did they go? Under the man made doctrine of the immortality of the soul, this is a impossible question to answer and has resulted in some truly strange answers which have nothing to do with God's word. However, if we accept the Bible's teaching that the soul dies when we die, the answer is simple. Those who never had the chance to hear the good news are asleep in death and will receive a earthly resurrection at the last day. They will then be taught the good news and those who accept it will get to inherit the earth as part of the meek, those who reject it go back to the dust.
What happens to us when we die is a major part of the belief structure of any religion, and as my above quote points out, nearly all religions are in conflict with what God's word states on the subject. That is how you shift the chaff from the wheat. There are many other points, many of them as basic this one, that most religions are in conflict with scripture. I don't want to make this post too long if it isn't already, so we can save some points for later.
So to sum up in a nut shell, the Bible contains the doctrines that a "True" religion would follow, there is only one united group of true followers of Christ according to scripture, it is possible to identify this one group by it's following the Bible. My belief is that Jehovah's Witnesses are this one group of true Christians, as demonstrated by their beliefs being in harmony with the Bible and their being the only group to actively follow Jesus' command to preach the good news earth wide. The Witnesses take no part in the religious violence our world seems to becoming inflamed with once again, like a possible return to the Dark Ages. They have always remained neutral and do not take any part in wars or violence of any sort. Witnesses have shown that they would rather die than actively support wars and political parties, because of this they have been attacked by political and religious extremists, and even mainstream religions. "When Jehovah's Witnesses were suppressed in Bavaria on April 13 the Church even accepted the assignment given it by the Ministry of Education and Religion of reporting on any member of the sect still practicing the forbidden religion." The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany, by Guenter Lewy, Page 43. That was then, and even in our comparable 'peaceful' times, simular things are still going on as the link below will show.
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=curren...
I bring this point up to show that Jehovah's Witnesses are different from all other religions and as a result are persecuted at times by groups who claim to follow the Bible and by other religions as well. When you boil it all down there are really only two types of religion, Jehovah's Witnesses, and everybody else. The Witnesses are unique, both in their adherence to following the Bible in deed as well in word, and in their political neutrality and not having any part in religious hatred other than being a victim of it. Due to their tight adherence to scripture, the Witnesses can readily support all of their beliefs by citing many Bible verses, while other religions are often found to be in an embarrassing position scripturally on many of their doctrines. Which is why many religious leaders instruct their members not to talk to Jehovah's Witnesses, because they know this. It is also note worthy that Jehovah's Witnesses are not instructed not to call on or talk to members of certain religions, but instead call on everyone everywhere. When the Witnesses call, they don't condemn other religions, they point out things believed in common and how the Bible provides the answers to the questions that all mankind has. The result of this approach is just the opposite of the effect of the sectarian divisiveness other religious have. All of Jehovah's Witnesses world wide are one cohesive group without the divisions that have cut other religions into mutually disagreeable fractions and sects. They are free of racial, political, ethnic, economic and regional differences. They alone enjoy the gift of unity that Christ wished his followers to have.
Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ohnhai, posted 01-12-2005 7:12 PM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-13-2005 3:42 PM wmscott has replied
 Message 24 by ohnhai, posted 01-14-2005 10:14 AM wmscott has replied

wmscott
Member (Idle past 6278 days)
Posts: 580
From: Sussex, WI USA
Joined: 12-19-2001


Message 29 of 302 (177069)
01-14-2005 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by PecosGeorge
01-13-2005 3:42 PM


Translations
Dear PecosGeorge:
Which Bible do the witnesses use to spread their message?
There is only one "Bible", but there are many tranlations. The translation most frequently used by Jehovah's Witnesses is the New World Translation. Here is a link to an on line copy.
http://www.watchtower.org/bible/index.htm
The NWT is in my opinion a very good translation. Here are links to two sites where it is ranked very highly by the standards used by scholars to check the quality of translations.
hector3000.future.easyspace.com is no longer available "What Is The Best New Testament"
hector3000.future.easyspace.com is no longer available
Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-13-2005 3:42 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-16-2005 8:52 AM wmscott has replied

wmscott
Member (Idle past 6278 days)
Posts: 580
From: Sussex, WI USA
Joined: 12-19-2001


Message 43 of 302 (177336)
01-15-2005 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ohnhai
01-14-2005 10:14 AM


Re: In their greed for money they will trade on your credulity with sheer fabrication
Dear Ohanhia;
Nice post Wm Scott Anderson. It neatly proves the way Religions make unsupported dogmatic justifications of their claim to have the single valid truth.
That is what the Bbile states, that there is only one truth. Acts 4:12 "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."
My points were supported by scripture, which means something to people who believe that the Bible is the Word of God. But if you don't believe that the Bible is inspired, we first have to start with proving that point first before we can proceed to using the Bible to prove or disprove other points.
First some questions.
What are your beliefs?
Do you want to find answers to your questions?
Do you believe that the Bible is inspired?
Who and what was Jesus Christ in your opinion?
If you are gonna write supposed user reviews to boost your average user rating (you book has 3 reviews all writen by you..), try to use different accounts to mask the fact. But at least it's utterly blatant this is what you've done, so it should take in only the truly dull of thought.
Yes only the truly dull would be taken in by it, the funny part is that some on this board have been. I used my name because I wasn't trying to hide the fact that I was writting an author's discription of my book. ( one for the hard copy, one for the soft copy, and where the third one came from, I will have to check. ) But I have learned that you can't make something simple enough not to trip up some people.
Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ohnhai, posted 01-14-2005 10:14 AM ohnhai has not replied

wmscott
Member (Idle past 6278 days)
Posts: 580
From: Sussex, WI USA
Joined: 12-19-2001


Message 88 of 302 (177876)
01-17-2005 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by PecosGeorge
01-16-2005 8:52 AM


Re: Translations
Dear PecosGeorge;
I did learn some time ago that Jehova Witnesses translated the bible to conform it to what they think it should say to meet their doctrinal needs.
(Acts 28:22) "as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against." Some things never change. This is an 'urban legend' that is frequently repeated that is nothing more than a misconception. Probably based on some real deep thinking, like -Jehovah's Witness believe things we don't, they have published a Bible translation, therefore it must because they altered the Bible!- which is pretty dull, what do you think would happen when a religion tries to use their 'altered bible'? Just take a look at your example of the Mormons, and their 'extra books' and how throughly discredited they are. Now imagine that someone just made up stuff and added it to the Bible, now don't you think it would be kind of obvious? Then you line up your followers with their 'new bibles' and sent them out to preach to the world with them. Sounds pretty dumb to me, don't you think people would learn to just ask them to turn to one of the more obvious changes and point it out to them? I provided you with a link to an on-line copy of the NWT, why didn't you post a 'obvious change', instead of just repeating what you had been told without checking the truthfulness of it? Human nature I would guess, why we still have urban legends and rumors.
What Jehovah's Witnesses have done is to change their doctrines to conform with the Bible. They are guilty of the charge of changing what they believe in over time. Which is what happens when you correct your beliefs to conform to scripture, you make this change and because of it you can now see others things in a different light. So you change them to fit better with scripture and then understanding that, you see this over here really means that, and so on and so on. It is an on going process, (Proverbs 4:18-19) "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." It was prophesied that this would be the case for the who follow Jehovah in our day. (Daniel 12:4) "And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."
Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-16-2005 8:52 AM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-17-2005 3:21 PM wmscott has not replied

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