quote:
You are trying to argue the entire content of the Koran and the Bible. That is not the topic here. The topic is the validity of differeing eyewitness accounts, period.
Well, then let us discuss that, right? Let me begin by saying that there were no eywitnesses.
I also assert that Jesus was a Muslim, who was neither killed nor crucified.
Here is the Proof # 1 that Jesus was a Muslim.
Jesus (pbuh) use to greet his disciples like a Muslim, by saying: Peace be unto you, (John 20:19). Muslims use the same words to greet, (but in Arabic): As’Salaamu Alaikum.
Proof # 2
In John 16: 12 & 13, Jesus says:
I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth;
This prophecy (we have discussed earlier) by Prophet Jesus (pbuh) refers to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), whose arrival his followers were directed to await. The many things that Jesus would have liked to tell his followers have not been told to them, not because Jesus did not know them, but only because his followers were not ready to bear them at that time: ... but you cannot bear them now.
When Jesus (pbuh) states you cannot bear them now, it only refers to his followers and does not include himself. But did he follow in action what he knew and was ready for? Yes. He did much of what a Muslim would do and is expected to do. In fact, this begins to happen even while he anticipates arrest by the Roman rulers.
He comes to know that he will be betrayed by one of his disciples, Judas, into the hands of the Jews, who intended to kill him. Apart from this, the other thing that makes him sorrowful is that he was expecting to do many things that a Muslim does. He was looking forward to the joy of doing all those things; but now his end is staring on the face. He tells his disciples:
My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
(Mark 14:34)
The one thing that he can surely do, before he is arrested, is to pray to the Lord as a Muslim prays. So he prays like a Muslim and does prostration (Sajda), touching his forehead to the ground:
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed.... (Matthew 26:39) What is his prayer to the Lord? The verse (Matthew 26:39) continues: ...saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as you will.
Mark 14:36 says about his prayer: And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what you will.
Luke 22:42 says about Jesus’ prayer: Saying, Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but your, be done.
The common thing observed from the above verses is: Jesus (peace be upon him) prays to the Lord to save him from the anticipated persecution at the hands of the Jews; yet not as Jesus wishes but as the Lord wills. Do you realize what Jesus is stating at this moment? He subdues his wishes and submits himself to the will of Allaah. In other words, Jesus declares his Islaam, submission, at that moment.
A Muslim is one who has submitted to the will of Allaah. Islaam means submission (to the will of Allaah), while it also means Peace. Thus, by declaring his submission to the will of Allaah, Jesus declared himself to be a Muslim.
It was also mentioned in Chapter 2 that Jesus (pbuh), as also the other prophets before him, called themselves ‘Muslims’.
But, then, why their followers were not named as ‘Muslims’, too?
If the followers of the different other prophets were also to be called as ‘Muslims’, then there would have been confusion in distinguishing between the true Muslims (who believe in all the prophets) and the followers of other prophets (who believe in some prophets and disbelieve in the rest). Belief in all the messengers of Allaah is a basic requirement to be called a Muslim. Allaah tells the Muslims in Glorious Qur’aan (2:136)
قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allh and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrhm, Ism‘l, Ishq, Ya‘qb, and to Al-Asbt (the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya‘qb), and that which has been given to Ms and ‘s, and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islm)."
Thus, Jesus (pbuh) practiced Islaam, i.e., Submission and he got Islaam, i.e., Peace. As the Bible tells us in Luke 22:43!
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
This is in appreciation of his act of Submission and as an answer to his prayers. The Bible just says that the angel strengthened him. Surely, he was not lacking in physical strength at that moment but what he needed most desperately was solace and assurance from the Lord that he would be saved from the arrest and wanted the freedom to perform the things he wanted to do as a Muslim.
So, Jesus the Muslim (peace be upon him) had prayed in ARABIC: Yaa Ilaahi, Yaa Ilaahi, Lima Sabaqtanee . Yes, this is what he asked the Lord at that moment. O my Lord, O my Lord, Why have you advanced me (in my end)?
Since he wished to do important things which a Muslim must do while he is still alive, the threatened end troubles him. So his prayer: O my Lord, O my Lord, Why have you advanced me?
Having not understood what he said, but actually having misunderstood what he said, the writers of the Gospel shifted these words into a situation where it fitted according to their understanding and scheme. The prayer has thus been misunderstood and misinterpreted then quoted out of context.
He did not utter such words at the cross, where he was never taken. They say that Jesus said: "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachtani? That is to say: My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? "(Matthew 27:46)
The above statement attributed to Jesus is totally wrong, because:
1. God will never forsake His messenger.
2. Jesus, who submits himself to the will of the Lord, will never utter such a word.
The prayer of Jesus (pbuh) did not go unanswered, but was answered through the angel, which appeared, in order to strengthen him. Luke 22:43: And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
What message did the angel carry from the Lord, in reply to Jesus’ question: O my Lord, O my Lord, Why have you advanced me? Let us read in Glorious Qur’aan, 3:55!
إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنْتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ
And (remember) when Allh said: "O ‘s! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you (of the forged statement that ‘s is Allh’s son) of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allh) superior to those who disbelieve (in the Oneness of Allh, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, ‘s, Ms, etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurt (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur’n) till the Day of Resurrection {1} . Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."
{1} (V.3: 55) The advent (descent) of ‘s, (son of Maryam) عليه السلام. a) Narrated Abu Hurairah رضي الله عبه Allh’s Messenger صلى الله عليه و سلم said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, surely (‘s), the son of Maryam عليه السلامwill shortly descend amongst you (Muslims), and will judge mankind justly by the law of the Qur’n (as a just ruler); he will break the cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jzyah " (i.e. taxation taken from non-Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allh (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Hurairah added: "If you wish, you can recite (this Verse of the Qur’n): "And there is none of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) but must believe in him (i.e. ‘s عليه السلام as a Messenger of Allh and a human being) before his (‘s عليه السلام or a Jew’s or Christian’s) death, and on the Day of Resurrection, he (‘s عليه السلام) will be a witness against them." (4:159). (See Fath Al-Bari, Vol.7, Page No.302) According to the quotation of Kushmaihani there is the word Al-Jizyah * instead of Al-Harb (Sahih Al-Bukhri, Vol.4, Hadth No.657). b) Narrated Abu Hurairah رضي الله عنه Allh’s Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "How will you be when the son of Maryam (i.e. ‘s عليه السلام descends amongst you, and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur’n and not by the law of the Injeel (Gospel)." (Fath Al-Bari, Vol.7, Pages 304 and 305) (Sahih Al-Bukhri, Vol.4, Hadth No.658). * The Jizyah: a tax imposed on non-Muslims who would keep their own religion, rather than embrace Islm) will not be accepted by ‘s عليه السلام, but all people will be required to embrace Islm and there will be no other alternative.
Got answers, Faith?
I will inSha Allaah walk you through the entire accounts of arrest, trail and alleged crucifixion and resurrection ;
using your own Bible. Let us proceed with these two proofs and then we will inSha Allaah move on.
This message has been edited by Checkmate, 04-25-2005 01:40 PM
This message has been edited by Checkmate, 04-25-2005 01:43 PM
This message has been edited by Checkmate, 04-25-2005 01:43 PM
"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."
Faith, I did make honest efforts to have a dialogue with you. You have repeatedly avoided me same way the Biblical Jesus avoided the "Jerusalem." Because,
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