Playboy made me do it

Whoa! Hold on there killer!I personally think that if women want to have cartoon boobs, a couple of ribs removed for a smaller waist, or have their vulva sliced up, more power to them. But I still find it horrifying that women would take such steps to modify their bodies to such degrees just because they want to look like porn stars or please their boyfriend of two months.

NO, it cannot be that. And I find this to be a sad argument as I have successfully shredded just about every social study you have ever posted, because you either didn't understand how poor the study was, or that it didn't support your position.Analysis of research was part of my undergrad education in Sociology and Philosophy, not to mention grad level Physical Sciences. I have the ability to disassociate myself from ramifications of a study, to clinically analyze its methodology and conclusions. Social Research is very very hard stuff, especially to draw conclusions from.If a study says something I don't want to hear, but it is valid as a study I will be able to report its validity, and then generally question how its results bear on legal or social issues. That is just because something is "harmful" or "helpful", does that suggest we should be promoting or denying that thing. First of all from you. I was riffing on your capitalist takeover of messages about body image thing.Second from me regarding not trusting anything psychologists or psychiatrists say about harm and victimhood given their history of victimizing people to make money, only later to admit their culpability. This is not to mention both professional organizations having now publicly stated that their data must be made to fit with societal and legal expectations. I have already explained this, and others have as well. It is a very poor home/parental environment which allows them to have a skewed outlook about themselves and methods of taking care of themselves.They have lost the ability to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. They are attempting to mold their bodies according to fantasy in order to deal with reality. What is the percentage of these people, versus those that are overweight? What is the evidence that only anorexics/bulimics are coming into contact with mass media images of thin people.Correlation does not equal causation.By the way what are the figures for this in Europe, do you know? There is a Bhuddist riddle: Who makes the grass green? When you solve that, you will indeed have your answer.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

That was an unsubstantiated claim. Who the hell says porn actresses all have small labia, especially ones that don't stick out past their outer labia? Not anyone who actually watches porn.They don't stick out in Playboy and softer mags like that, but that's why God made Hustler and its competitors. Viewing inner labia was considered vulgar and more explicit, just like seeing cocks or hard cocks, so they were not shown in soft porn.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

See, I didn't get that part either. In fact, both my husband and I hold the opposite opinion based on the mags and porn we've seen. The vulgarity aspect makes a lot of sense to me.It seems to me that some people get these crazy ideas and sometimes they just take off.

This was my comment: I note that nobody but you in this thread has acknowldged it.

it is apparent to me that the source of your issue is with parents. the media did not make your parents mistreat you. american culture did not force your parents to only value the superficial.there's an awful lot of very small and very slender women in india. why don't you mine me some stats about eating disorders there (among the higher classes).the thing with psychology is that it's an ongoing learning science. there are no real rules yet. there is much debate on causality and no real empirical standards (people have uncontrolable variables). you could have a thousand papers saying that there is a correlation with people obsessed with their weight and people who stare at pictures of attractive well-loved people all the time. but that wouldn't change that there are a thousand other papers that say that such is simply a symptom of obsession with a goal of being loved. but to say that the media should somehow ignore the desires of the people and force an unwanted product just because it might have something to do with little susie thinking she's fat because mommy told her she wasn't good enough when there's significant evidence to show that parental favoritism affects things very severely all the time... that's just silly. especially to say it's playboy's fault. little girls shouldn't even know that playboy exists.

haha silly bitches with gag reflexes. i pity you all.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 07-18-2005 04:38 PM

well. she's a photographer and wants to be a college professor. so i don't imagine high-powered jobs are important to her. but she is taken seriously in the jobs she takes related to her field.oh yes and i just turned down a job as a car salesman and -while i wore dress pants and professional looking shoes- i don't fix my nails, i didn't wear makeup to any of the interviews, and i don't fiddle with my hair beyond brushing it. in fact. i went to all the interviews just after showering from my current swim instructor job and riding a half hour in my car with no ac.you get good jobs by having a secure resume and a personable demeanor. if i have to slut myself for a job, i don't want it.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 07-18-2005 04:50 PM

nobody ever said that people who get surgery for self-esteem were smart. you get surgery to look different. if you think that looking different is going to fix how you feel... you get what's coming to you i guess.

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it is apparent to me that the source of your issue is with parents. the media did not make your parents mistreat you.

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They are a big part of it, but so is Seventeen magazine and my experiences with boys and men.

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american culture did not force your parents to only value the superficial.

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They demanded good grades as well, but of course american culture taught my parents that the superficial was important.They were Catholics raised in the 1950's for fuck's sake. Putting up a front of domestic bliss and family perfection while reality was far from perfect was the name of the game back then.

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there's an awful lot of very small and very slender women in india. why don't you mine me some stats about eating disorders there (among the higher classes).

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India Times Article

Hi Brennakimi. So are you saying they were going to hire you even though you did not "fix yourself up." ? And you turned them down? Good yes...But everything being equal, the jobs usually go to the aformentioned and a attractive face and body.The beautiful people with brains win out more often, that's just the way it is.I believe a person with a beautiful face and body can dress professionally and still influence a prospective employer on a subconcious level. Perhaps you made quite the impression.

yeah. it was an hour drive from my house and commission only and i need something more dependable.*shrugs* i've seen some fugly people in great jobs.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 07-18-2005 05:32 PM

that's .04 inches a year. that's big? 6 lbs? i loose six pounds on the can. but stretched over 50 years, that .12 lbs a year. such a dramatic change! because she's stupid. asian's in. so? this might be a good piece of evidence to discourage people from cosmetic curgery, but it's NOT an explanation of why they choose to do it. people do it to improve self esteem. whether or not it actually works (and i'm sure it DOES in some instances, if only because of cognitive dissonance), they think it will.

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אָרַח

I stopped reading glam mags in my late teens/early 20s. I was reading a bathing suit article in Glamour where they showed you which bathing suits looked best on which body types. The article also stated how important it was for women to stay away from suits that were too small. Then a couple of pages down were several photos of women in suits that were obviously WAY too small for them. The blatant hypocrisy disgusted me and I never picked up or have even read another glam magazine again.I'm not that fucking stupid, than you very much!So while it's not easy to entirely ignore the 'ideal' images of women portrayed by the media, you can choose to ignore a lot of it.This message has been edited by roxrkool, 07-18-2005 06:27 PM