Pat Robertson shows again why the Christian Right is such a laughingstock

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I'm just wondering who you see jumping in to support him. Your statement just shows your own bias. Is there anybody of any political leaning on this forum agreeing with him?

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I wish Jar hadn't started this thread so soon.All of us pinko leftists should have waited a week to see if any of the rightists were going to start one instead of just responding to this one.My thoghts is that you (meaning you personally and also the collective conservative you) oppose him personally but not so much that you will refuse the sizeable vote block he can deliver.

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So the religious right has Pat Robertson and the democrats have Howard Dean.

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Pat is a liar, crazy, and a hypocrite.Dean is smart, passionate, and honest.

I see you are having trouble reading. Check it out. Read carefully. There it is. In case you missed it the first 2 times... There it is again.

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Ohhhh Schraf..gonna have to stop you here. Post a link to the millions of starving children in the US. Let's hit the breaks again. How did these "idle" people get the money to invest in stocks I wonder? Yeah, gonna have to stop you here again. Instead of throwing out arbitrary numbers though, I'll cite facts. If you make 50,000 a year or more, you are in the top 50% of income tax payers. 300,000 a year or more puts you in the top 1%. You say (with no facts) that the top 2% have all the money. Guess what, the top 5% are paying more than 50% of income taxes.If I were you, I would bless those top 2%. They are who pay for all those nice social programs.

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On the other hand, if he is a thug, a communist who remains in power by other than democratic means in a democracy, then we have a right, possibly a duty, to voice opposition to that circumstance.

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You mean like in China?And Saudi Arabia?

Yeah, keep thinking that!YYEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

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Yes, just like them. And I don't believe we've ever voiced approval for oppression by any foreign government, regardless of their size, power or trading status. We do enjoy friendly relations with Saudi Arabia, it does not follow that we support all that goes within that sovereign country's government. The same holds with China. Different situations call for different tactics, too. Venezuela isn't China, now is it?

You obviously are ignorant of how people come to own stock in publicly held companies, sir. They earn income, that they pay taxes on & with the after tax money, having first paid their mortgages, car payments, insurance premiums, grocery bills, etc., they use the money they've saved to buy stocks in companies. Those companies in turn use the money they raise selling their stocks to invest in new jobs, equipment, facilities, etc. It's called the free market, capitalism, the American dream. And BTW, the bulk of stocks are owned by pension & profit sharing plans & mutual funds of workers like you & me, not the wealthy. The middle class in this country owns the vast majority of the wealth in this nation, not the rich.

No. Then why do we support Israel?

BTW, nobody goes with healthcare in this country. They may not have health INSURANCE, but anyone can go to an emergency room in any town in America & they must be treated for anything from a hang nail to a head cold to a brain tumor to open heart surgery, free of charge. There's a big distinction, don't you agree?

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Ohhhh Schraf..gonna have to stop you here. Post a link to the millions of starving children in the US.

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Are you actually going to tell me that you don't know there is a hunger problem in the US?And I can't help but notice that you misquoted me and left off the part where I said that millions of US children don't have any health care coverage, which you clearly know is true but hoped I didn't notice that you left it off my statement.Instead of addressing that shameful shortcoming of ours, the most fabulously wealthy country on the planet, you just ignore it. linkThe number of children under 18 living in poverty in the US is 12,488,000, or 16.9%

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How did these "idle" people get the money to invest in stocks I wonder?

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Most of them inherited it.Let me be clear. I am well aware that many in the midddle class own stocks these days. But they do not own, say, controlling or influential interest in a number of large, multinational corporations that enable them to enjoy breathtakingly fabulous profits in the millions, sometimes billions of dollars. THOSE are the people who hold the money in this country, and the vast majority of them didn't start out as file clerks. The money has been in most of those families for generations.The Bill Gates' of this world are very, very rare, regardless of what the Republican party has led you to believe. Most of the money in this country is passed from generation to generation (like the Hiltons, or the Bush's) and that's where it will stay, as long as the tax codes keep the rich getting richer and the middle class shoulder most of the tax burden.

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If I were you, I would bless those top 2%. They are who pay for all those nice social programs.

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No, they don't, the middle class pays for most of the social programs in the US.What you don't know about taxes and who pays the most is a lot.If we take into account impact and proportion of total income, the lower and middle class tax rates are much higher than the those of the rich.You also have forgotten all about payroll taxes and sales tax, both of which hit middle and low income peope proportionately more than the rich.If I pay taxes of 50% of 10 million dollars, I still have 5 million dollars, but if I pay 15% of $40,000, I am left with $34,000. It is much, much easier to live on $5,000,000 than it is to live on $34,000, right?Additionally, there is a cap on paying payroll taxes if you make over $90,000. So, the lower middle class and lower class pay a greater share of the government programs that payroll taxes pay for compared to the upper middle class and the rich.Sales tax also hits poorer people harder because it is the same regardless of income level and when you are poor you spend a larger proportion of your income on consumer goods than rich people, who have the ability to make their money into even greater sums of money through investment or at the very least savings accounts which earn interest.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-25-2005 09:29 AM

I should think that would be obvious. They've been oppressed by violent terrorists for decades, enemies all around them. And until recently, they've been the only democracy in the ME.

Can you please show me some examples of his ideas, suggested policies, or vales which are not smart, passionate, or honest?

Ummm... you don't think those people opposed to them have any legitimate claims? Or do you think their in the 'violent opposition' game for shitz and giggles?

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You obviously are ignorant of how people come to own stock in publicly held companies, sir. They earn income, that they pay taxes on & with the after tax money, having first paid their mortgages, car payments, insurance premiums, grocery bills, etc., they use the money they've saved to buy stocks in companies.

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That's true of middle class people who buy stocks, but that is a fairly recent phenomena.It is not true for the people who control the vast majority of the wealth of this country.

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Those companies in turn use the money they raise selling their stocks to invest in new jobs, equipment, facilities, etc. It's called the free market, capitalism, the American dream. And BTW, the bulk of stocks are owned by pension & profit sharing plans & mutual funds of workers like you & me, not the wealthy.

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Who owns the large blocks of stock which return millions in profits to single people?

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The middle class in this country owns the vast majority of the wealth in this nation, not the rich.

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That is simply not true according to every source I can find.Including this article from the Wall Street JournalI hope you aren't going to claim the WSJ is a "leftist rag" or something. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-25-2005 10:03 AM