I'm trying: a stairway to heaven?

My view or mindset of Jesus agrees with that of Brad Young in his book "The Parables". In the OT I find that the word translated righteous means: just, lawful, righteous.
Unrighteous means: trouble, wickedness, sorrow In the NT the word translated righteous means: righteous, observing divine laws.
Unrighteous means: descriptive of one who violates or has violated justice
__________________________________________Considering true righteousness and true unrighteousness I would equate them with law abiding and nonlaw abiding. IMO the unrighteous referred to in the Bible are those who actually break the laws of the legal system and are considered criminals.Now I do feel that the Bible also contains "mud slinging." Innerfaith battles. Annuling lesser commandments, which would mean people weren't following them, doesn't necessarily revoke your E ticket. So there are degrees of breakage. So in the parable I wrote in Message 187, neither person would be cast into the unrighteous club even though both failed to help the stranded driver. The daughter tried to help, but was hindered by props. The Elder was hindered by fear and didn't even try to help, but I don't feel this puts him in the criminal category.The Elder is however the type of religious leader that Jesus addressed several times, who would give when it was visible to others and beneficial to themselves, but not when it was unseen or unbeneficial. That is what I call "works." Calculated actions to benefit the doer.Does this sound like an accurate understanding of true righteousness and unrighteousness?

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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The issue of works seems to revolve far more around why things are done then what is done.

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Exactly!

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First, if after leaving the Elder's house, the stranger walked over to another farm house, one owned by an Atheist, who behaved just as the daughter did.

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Second, instead of the owner of the third house being an Atheist, suppose he was a Muslim? If a Muslim behaved exactly as the daughter did, what effect would it have on your analysis?

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I think either would still be credited as righteous and eligible for eternal life if their life continued in that pattern. Jesus didn't stress belief to the rich man.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

In a Marine Corps boot camp female barracks each evening after sundown, the DI (drill instructor) reviewed the day's events and asked for two volunteers to empty the GI can (trash can). The GI can was required to be emptied before the women changed into their PJ's (sleeping attire), since they were not allowed outside the barracks in their PJ's without proper covering.Eager to gain favor from the DI, several volunteered each evening. Over several weeks it was usually the same group of women who jumped to volunteer.One evening the DI didn't ask for volunteers. All the women forgot about emptying the GI can. As they stood at the end of their racks (beds) in their PJ's awaiting final inspection before retiring, someone spied the full GI can.If the can was not emptied before the DI returned, the entire barracks would suffer consquences. Two volunteers were needed to empty the GI can. The usual volunteers remained silent.To take the GI can outside after dark in PJ's, two women would need to put on their rain ponchos. The rain ponchos are required to be precisely folded, rolled, and attached to the end of the rack before evening inspection. So even though the volunteers empty the GI can before the DI returns and the group is safe, the volunteers could still suffer personal demerits for failing inspection if they didn't succeed in properly attaching their rain ponchos.Finally two women volunteered, who had never volunteered for the job before. They put on their rain ponchos and emptied the GI can. As soon as they entered the squadbay, several women helped them remove their ponchos and fold them as required. Quickly they ran to their racks and attached the properly folded ponchos. Just as they finished, the DI entered. They both passed inspection.This message has been edited by purpledawn, 11-08-2005 05:29 AM

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Computer hiccup. Deleted double post.Have a great day! This message has been edited by purpledawn, 11-08-2005 06:58 AM

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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Righteous action this today, unrighteous action next week. All the way through her life. Where does she end up: heaven or hell?

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She repents and asks for forgiveness, just as David did and just as the Elder of the parable should have. Then she is forgiven and back in a state of righteousness. And according to Jesus the righteous inherit eternal life.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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The only people who reckoned the Pharisees were righteous were the Pharisees themselves and people. Jesus didn't.

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Again, you're not dealing with the whole concept.Yes the Pharisees did their good works for people to see, just like the eager volunteers in my last parable, but they were not criminals.Jesus is calling for them to repent and change their ways and pay more attention to the more important aspects of the Torah.He did not tell people to exceed the self-righteousness of the Pharisees. But to exceed their righteousness. Even a self-righteous person can be righteous.As I've shown before: Least not out and only the righteous go to eternal life. Unless you are saying that the two are different?Also: Address these and how they relate to what you are trying to say.You still haven't anwered whether you consider the words attributed to Jesus to be what he actually said or not.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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None of the above uses for the word indicate 'trying'. ie: you are not righteous in any of the contexts in which the word is used because you try to be lawful. Only that you are law abiding

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You haven't shown me that people are consider unrighteous because of minor mistakes even in God's eyes.It really amazes me that you can believe in an awesome God who has the intelligence to create details of a universe from the largest elements down to the tiniest of unseen details, but you don't believe he will actually know who is good and who is bad.
Who is sincere and who is not.
Who was mislead and who was not.
Who intends harm and who does not.
Who would make a good citizen in an eternal life and who would not.You don't seem to trust his instincts. I seem to be giving him more credit for good judgment than you are.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Paul was trying to please God, not men For his efforts Paul expects his award, not a gift. Which seems different than what he says in Romans 6:23.
________________Now if one has to work to keep the faith or to believe, aren't they believing for the purpose of gaining eternal life?If you say only those who believe receive eternal life, then those who convert are doing so to gain eternal life. The motivation is eternal life, not true love or trust in God or Jesus.Kinda like the people who like me only for what I can do for them or give them.Who is truly righteous? The one who does what is right for the sake of doing what is right or the one who does what is right because of an expected reward/gift? This includes actions and beliefs.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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you are not a Christian, you CANNOT please God

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Please show me where this is supported in the Bible.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Hey Truthlover,
Maybe you will talk to me and not at me. I am really interested in this subject.

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It follows that up by saying, "You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God is in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him" (Rom 8:9).

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OK, given what is also said before 8:8, if one has the spirit of Christ (the annointed) could that also be taken as if one has the disposition of the annointed? Be like Jesus.The mind that is set on the flesh does not subject itself to the law of God or is not able to supposedly. Some people have difficulty abiding by the rules.So if one abides by the rules and is kind to those they come in contact with, wouldn't they be behaving like Jesus? Wouldn't they be representative of the spirit of the annointed? IMO, there are people who are inherently good, whether they are "believers" or not.A God who can create such a complex universe would surely know who is truly good and who isn't and could understand the confusion man has created concerning religion.Laws come about because of the wicked, not because of the good.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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I had no idea it sounded like that. My apologies.

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Sorry didn't say it correctly apparently. My assumption is that you will talk to me. iano is talking at me. Meaning I can probably have a discussion to learn from with you. Sorry for the miscommunication.

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I doubt seriously that's what Paul was trying to say.

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I'll have to look into it more. Paul's words have been distorted to fit tradition or dogma in many cases, so we may be overlooking a possible meaning. IMO, it could be possible given the usage in the sentence.

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As John put it, the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Why would God withhold his Spirit from someone just because they didn't subscribe to or know about Christian theology or the crucifixion? (Maybe the better question is why would he give his Spirit to someone who subscribed to current Christian theology? ;->)

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I would agree.

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To my mind, the flesh is the body with its desires (food, comfort, sex, etc.)

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Now see, I would consider in the flesh to be the desires not necessary for survival.IMO, many make it more difficult than it is. The behavioral teaching is missed for the prize at the end.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-