Cartoons and common sense

Your last post wasn't the position I put up. As you chop it up it doesn't make any sense - I agree. Mod has put my position up in a different way. Does it make sense?

If the belief system of muslims says they should crazy because of this, then them going crazy is to be expected.If the belief system of a more liberal non-muslim is that muslims 'should be reasonable', then it is to be expected they would say that.

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Neither are wrong in their reaction unless their belief system is wrong - and it seems that won't be 'proven' one way or the other, for anyone, this side of the grave.

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This message has been edited by Modulous, Sun, 05-February-2006 07:52 PM

iano, Is it that as an idolator I am game for their displeasure?Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Modulous,And if I want to kill people that don't want me to be an idolator then they reasonably can't complain if their position is to threaten death to idolators.The point is that I can do what I like, tough titty to them.The very reason the satirical cartoons were made in the first place is because this is how they act.MarkThis message has been edited by mark24, 02-05-2006 03:31 PM

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

I do.The unreasonableness lies in the fact that the cartoons point to violent aspects of their belief, as perceived in the West, and that by staging such vehement protests, burning embassies, and inciting violence and murder, they in fact demonstrate a core of truth behind this perception.

They can complain all they like, why can't they reasonably complain? And they can be pissed off for any reason they like, incliding your attitude that you can do what you want. Well, yeah. Its like when the white supremacists made comments about some neighbourhood of black people being violent, and to protest the black people rioted.

Uhmmm... as I pointed out, this occurs in any community. Thus its sort of silly to pick them out as being something special.I think it was factually incorrect to project mohammed as supportive of terrorism. And while those overreacting now might well have been the target of the satirical cartoons, I think its safe to say that not all of the people who might be upset are not protesting and all those protesting may not be terrorists.

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holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)

They pick themselves out as something special. Their prophet is better than anyone else, their laws should be everyone's laws, their truth is the only truth. I've heard people in the street shout these things at the top of their lungs. Now who's being silly here? NOT all who might be upset are NOT protesting? Are you sure about that second 'not'? I think you mean something else. They may not be terrorists in that they don't don an explosive vest and blow themselves up in a crowd, but the things they put on their placards certainly incite terror in the hearts of Europeans, for what they might encourage some of their fellow Muslims in Europe to do to innocent people.This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 05-Feb-2006 09:49 PM

holmes, I'm not. I agree, but that's not the objection that has been made. At least, every muslim I've heard complain has cited the "no images of prophets" as their argument. They could in my eyes have made (& I'm sure some have) a perfectly legitimate argument along these lines.Instead, we are to have their religion foisted upon us. Even a drawing of mohammed helping the poor would draw the same complaint.Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Sorry, were you talking about Christianity, Islam or Judaism?

Modulous, Is it reasonable to force the entire world to do something that is specific to your religion? Even if that were the case, other religions managed to avoid idolatry by depicting their gods & prophets, at least to no particularly greater level. So even the rationale of not depicting prophets can't be said to be sound. And what could be more idolatrous that the requirement of total submission to the will of Allah? So hypocricy to boot!So no, I don't find their objection "reasonable" in any sense of the word. They had a point, then, didn't they?Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

I don't think so. Muslims haven't forced me to do something. They have gotten very upset about something their religion says they should get upset about. I don't think that's the point, and I don't think Muslims will agree (nor would I) that other religions have avoided idolatry in this case. I don't think conflating Mohammed and Allah is particularly valid. Absolutely.

You think I mentioned three things, don't you? Prophet, laws, and truth. Well, I mentioned four: shouting as well. In fact, I cannot remember when I last saw footage of muslims in the street who were not shouting "Allah akbar", which in essence means prophet, laws, and truth. I am talking about Islam.Of course, there are rabid Christians and Jews. There are rabid Hindus and Buddhists as well. There are rabid atheists for all I know. For any type of person you can think of, there is a rabid variety.But there seem to be an awful lot of rabid Muslims, compared to others. And their rabidness is of the scary kind.

I bore it mind. Naturally the media is only going to show interesting or emotive images of muslims. I see Muslims daily, and never heard one actually say that. I've seen plenty of vocal Christians, shouting about Jesus.Now, it might be that Islam is particularly vocal, but its not like there wasn't a lot of shouting going on from Christians if Christ is mocked with non-factual depictions. Imagine the uproar from the Christian right if Christ was depicted having gay sex, performing abortions etc.It might well be silly to pick them out as special, though it seems mostly fair to pick them out as being most vocal.

I'm imagining it. I don't see, in my imagination, Christians calling for the decapitation of the maker of the imaginary Christ cartoon. Nor do I see them threatening 9-11 type violence. That's what I mean by the scary kind of rabidness. Somehow, part of the Islamic culture has taken on a very nasty, violent character, and I'm not sure if I trust the moderate in Islam to keep the violent in check.