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Author | Topic: The Case Against the Existence of God | |||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
The fact that I feel pain negates an all-good, all-powerful God. There's a logical problem with this argument. See message #14.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
If GOD exists, She exists reagrdless of any evidence that shows She does not exist. Your God appears to be female. What are the metaphysical implications of that? Is that why you say HER views on morality are subjective? Is that a comment about femininity?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Would you be interested in reasoning back from What Is to see if the notion even of a source of What Is is neccesary? Oh, sure, I'm interested. By "necessary" I take it you mean logically necessary?
I'm taking it that you aren't so much interested in what any particular ancient manuscript asserts as you are in the abstract concept of the explanation? Exactly. ps.: Spinoza's ideas are interesting: I don't know what I think of them yet. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-06-2006 03:01 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Even if the meaning of my pain is objectively meaningless, it is still subjectively meaningful to me. True, but if it's subjective it can't serve as evidence for anything. Say I prefer red to blue. That cannnot serve as evidence that red is in fact superior to blue. Now, subjective preferences are ultimately arbitrary. There is no reason to select one preference over another. I prefer red to blue, but I might as well prefer blue to red. There's no basis for preferring either. If there were a basis, then my preference would not be merely subjective. If our morality is subjective, then our judgments cannot serve as evidence for anything.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
How can anyone make a case against your God when you haven't told us what your God does or did or is supposed to do. This God created the universe. Now if Green Lantern created the universe, then Green Lantern is another name for God. If Green Lantern did not create the universe, but rather is a product of the universe, then he is a different type of entity, an extraneous entity. In that case, the concept of "Green Lantern" is not the same kind of concept as the concept of "God." All these entities are either different names for God or are totally unnecessary, by definition, since they derive from nature. The concept of "God" is different. God does not derive from nature but rather created nature. There are only two choices: 1. An eternal Being (eternal by definition) created nature.2. nature has always existed (in some form). All other choices can be reduced down to these two. All other beings, except this Being who created nature, are extraneous. There is no logical reason to choose either 1 or 2--if we don't consider the nature of this universe but only the fact of creation. Dan's reference to Green Lantern or whatever is no argument at all. What it appears to be is a sarcastic slur on belief. That might work fine as rhetorical pathos; but good logos it's not. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-06-2006 03:14 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
If nothing else, "I don't know" is always an acceptable third option. We were talking about atheism not agnosticism. Look at the OP.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Does that make sense? It really wouldn't suprise me if it didn't. Yes, it makes sense to me. "It is very unhappy, but too late to be helped, the discovery we have made, that we exist. That discovery is called the Fall of Man."--Emerson
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
As someone who (I'm assuming) doesn't believe in undetectable massless eternal swarms of pixies, do you really have a reason not to believe in such lovable creatures? If these pixies are the creators of the universe, then they are just another name for God. Otherwise, they are a different kind of entity altogether and cannot be compared to the concept of God. They are extraneous. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-07-2006 03:23 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You're missing the point. You aren't presenting a God from belief. You are concocting a God and adding rules as you go along. On what do you base these rules, attributes, or choices? The God I "concocted" was one I thought was commonly believed in. I wanted to restrict the discussion to that concept for the purposes of this thread. That way we could concentrate on whether a case could be built against such a concept of God. As far as the origin of the universe, the choices I presented were not "concocted." These are the only 2 choices. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 04-07-2006 03:31 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Such as what? Gravity.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
One is that different people hold different beliefs. What is this supposed to mean? It's true, of course, but what's your point?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
We can measure gravity I thought you were asking about what we could see.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The burnden of proof in on the believer. The burden of proof is even--50/50.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
we can see gravity in the way it bends light around mass We can not see gravity. We cannot see space-time,we cannot see "energy"--whatever that is. We cannot see "curved space" (another word for gravity, I hear). We cannot see thoughts.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
What I've been thinking of is an argument we could call the Argument From Lack of Design against the existence of God, but I suppose it has lots of problems.
Suppose there was an alien who came to Earth and looked at a building and then looked at a junkyard where items had been tossed haphazardly. This alien has never seen a building or a junkyard. What he recognize the building as designed and the junkyard as undesigned?
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