Why NOT Christ Lineage through Joesph's boodline, Instead of Judah's

I dont take it as an insult.Jaywill's inability to refute just proves my rightness! (© WT)Brian.

You still haven't got a bloodline from Jesus to Solomon though!Well, as long as it sits right in your mind, carry on.Brian.

I must be missing something.We have two genealogies of a guy who wasn't even Jesus' father, so that really should be the end of the story.The virgin birth (as well as other things) negates the possibility that Jesus was the messiah, there is no need to mutilate the Bible. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that Jesus could not have been the messiah.The only sensible way forward is to admit that the author of matthew made a huge error in allocating Jesus a 'virgin birth', and that Joseph was indeed Jesus' father. The Jeconiah line curse can be explained by God's forgiving nature when He informs Zerubabbel that:Haggai 2:20-13The word of the LORD came to Haggai a second time on the twenty-fourth day of the month: 21 "Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I will shake the heavens and the earth. I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother.

​

" 'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty." This implies that the curse was lifted, why else would God choose Zerubabbel?So, it is easy to give Jesus a bloodline to David (and Solomon) and we do not have to mutilate the Bible to do so. All we have to do is admit that the author of Matthew made a mistake, and being honest, Matthew's Gospel is full of mistakes, so it is not a problem to do so.So, we have Joseph as Jesus father, and God lifts the curse on Jeconiah's line, hey presto.Oops, forgot one important point, Jesus was never crowned king of Israel!Oh well, almost had it Brian.

Hi Ramoss, I don't see how that is a problem. If God lifted the curse, then it would allow any of Zerubabbel's descendants to have a legal right to the throne.Remember God said that "I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me ; your throne will be established forever.' " It's kind of difficult to imagine that God would make this promise and then break it, whereas it is very easy to imagine that God could forgive someone and remove a curse.When Jeconiah was cursed God said:Jeremiah 22:24-30"As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. I will hand you over to those who seek your life, those you fear”to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and to the Babylonians. I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. You will never come back to the land you long to return to."

​

Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants?

​

Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know?

​

O land, land, land, hear the word of the LORD!

​

This is what the LORD says: "Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah."But, Haggai 2:20-23 The word of the LORD came to Haggai a second time on the twenty-fourth day of the month: "Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I will shake the heavens and the earth. I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother.

​

" 'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty." I think that the term 'signet ring' is very important here. God uses the term when He cursed Jehoiachin, He mentions removing the ring and removing Jehoiachin. But, in Haggai, the signet ring motif reappears, this time as Zerubabbel is chosen. Signet rings were used as seals, this could mean that God is using Zerubabbel to reseal the deal made with David all those years before.Also, I am pretty sure that there are a few Rabbinical texts that claim that the curse was lifted.Zerubabbel may have been the resumption of the messianic line, and with Joseph being his descendant, we would have that bloodline if we ignore the silly virgin birth mistake that the author of Matthew made.Brian.

Not a typo at all, just the author, in his haste to make Jesus into something he wasn't, messed up. Gzus, Isaiah 7:14 isn't even a messianic prophecy! But, the author of Gmat does take many O.T. verses out of context.Just as Matthew copied almost all of Mark, Luke copied much of Matthew, copying an error is just that, copying an error. Why do the other two Gospels, Paul, and every other NT author fail to mention Jesus amazing conception?Brian.

Instead of showing your ignorance, why not just tell me where I am going wrong?I realise it must be annoying that an atheist knows far more about your faith than you do, but hang around because I could teach you a lot, and free of charge as well.Brian.

HI R, What many Christians fail to notice is that by insisting that Isaiah 7:14 is referring to a sexual virgin, then there was a virgin birth 700 years before Jesus' alleged appearance.Immanuelle, as you say, appears in the next chapter, which brings along another example of 'quote mining' by the author of gMat. In 1:23 he insists that Jesus will be called Immanuel, which, to our knowledge He was never called. Of course Immanuel means 'God with us', as in God is on our side, God approves of our actions. Imanuelle's birth was to show Ahaz that God is on his side, God is with him.The Gospel of Matthew is a wonderful example of ancient propaganda and quote mining. As a 'history' book, it serves its purpose well, it tries to make Jesus into something He wasn't, and so many people just simply accept what it says without investigating the issues. The Gospel of Matthew tries to hard, and the flaws are gigantic, I am surprised it is even in the New Testament.Brian.

We still haven't found that elusive bloodline that links Jesus to David.Brian.

It is if someone insists on His mother being a virgin who was impregnated by Yahweh. The virgin birth negates Jesus' messiahship.Brian.

The Messiah is also expected to free Israel from her enemies, which Jesus also failed to do. In actual fact, Israel was even more persecuted after Jesus than it was for many a long year.I cannot see how any objective reader of the Bible can conclude anything other than Jesus was not the Messiah.Brian.

Not at all, this is the Christian perversion of the Old Testament. These silly ideas were constructed to try and explain away Jesus' complete failure to do anything that was required of the Messiah.Try reading the Old Testament again, and in context. The God of love that ordered the murder of innocent women and children at Jericho, killed people at Ai, and slaughtered countless babies in Egypt? Can you feel the love? Forgiveness for what? Well, you have to say that since Jesus achieved zero material victories.Brian.

I know people say that Jesus was annointed therefore He was a messiah, but didn't annointing have to be done by the head preist of Israel, in Jesus' case this would have been Caiaphas?Brian.

By the Holy Ghost apparently.Brian.

Well, you have to give them some credit, they did try to cover all the bases.But we have to remember that they were writing for a non-critical audience, and an audience where only a tiny percentage were literate.It is different nowadays, but even with high literacy levels many people still cannot see how transparent these cop outs are.Certain types of Christian will be quite content with these excuses, the fact that they are nonsense doesn't come into it.Brian.