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Author Topic:   Salvation by faith and works : intellectually ridiculous?
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1312 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 28 of 172 (304992)
04-18-2006 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by iano
04-18-2006 12:33 PM


Re: I don't think its ridiculous
iano writes:
But does it not seem slightly lunatic to suppose that that 0.1 second lust (or some such divide) should result in such reward/punishment
Hi Iano,
I find it strange that you of all people are examining the logic of God's decisions regarding salvation.
near every discussion I've been in with you ends up with a hand-waving statement along the lines of 'We can't hope to understand how god works using our puny human minds'
Yet, here you are, using you human mind to measure the lunacy/sense of salvation by faith/works.
wrt salvation by faith:
iano writes:
Salvation by faith alone doesn't seem to present that particular problem - if only because there doesn't seem to be any tangible 'by the skin of your teeth in/ out' aspect offered by its tenets
so.. what If I believed that jesus was the son of God, rose from the dead, but had my doubts about the other miracles? where would I stand on faith?
wrt to salvation by works
If salvation by works is true, I'm sure you would concede that God is fully able to discern who is eligible, whether it be an analogue or a digital crossover. Trying to make sense of it using your earthly abilities is surely sensless?
iano writes:
He is not made unjust by our definition of just.
Indeed..surely your own beliefs require that you do not even attempt to understand how god makes such a decision? Is that not the direction that A&E went? trying to understand and hence be like God?
If you are going to apply human measures of sense/lunacy, salvation by works is the only 'sensible' option,
But then again, if you are going to apply human measures of sense/lunacy here you need to question a lot more than entry requirements to heaven

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 04-18-2006 12:33 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by iano, posted 04-18-2006 1:24 PM Heathen has replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1312 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 31 of 172 (305002)
04-18-2006 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by iano
04-18-2006 1:24 PM


Re: I don't think its ridiculous
iano writes:
the difference between the last in heaven and first in hell will be some relatively trival difference in works. A "fraction of a sin" as it were - if you take the amounts of people who will be measured
But is there not the same possibility for different levels of faith?
Even on this very site, there are wideley differing versions of christianity, differing levels of literalism.
If you are going to treat works as a gradient, it seems reasonable that faith could be treated similarly.
maybe christian A has stronger faith than christian B, who in turn has stronger faith than christian C... and so on until you reach a point where the faith held by a person becomes insufficient to guarantee a place in heaven.
The problem you have with Works applies to faith also.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by iano, posted 04-18-2006 1:24 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by iano, posted 04-18-2006 1:56 PM Heathen has replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1312 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 40 of 172 (305018)
04-18-2006 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by iano
04-18-2006 1:56 PM


Re: I don't think its ridiculous
iano writes:
The Bible only decribes 2 postions. In Adam/In Christ
You believe in salvation by faith right? so.. at what point am I defined as being in christ... wrt my faith?
Do I have to believe every word of the bible? or just the NT? or maybe just the ressurection?
Or do I simply have treat people as I would have them treat me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by iano, posted 04-18-2006 1:56 PM iano has not replied

  
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