Creationism, Evolution and the Public Schools

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ Read my post to Percy today in my education thread. I give the reason why we don't publish mainstream often. The gist: even the most obvious arguemnts for design cannot be made mainstream although a good proportion of publishing scientists would agree that design is evident.

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What, exactly, constitutes a "good proportion" of scientists? What fields of science would say this? Not Biologists, and not Geologists, I would wager.If design cannot be made scientific, then why do you expect it to be published in scientific journals?If it isn't scientific, then why do you expect it to be taught in science classrooms?

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Actually I think you're the one getting wobbly at the thought of casualties. This country is pro-war right now.

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Except that it really isn't.There were several protests last month that had tens or hundreds of thousands of people at them and there was basically ZERO national television news coverage of them AT ALL.Small and large anti-war protests are taking place all the time both here and abroad, but you wouldn't know it by watching the US news.Oh, and Gene, we were funding the Taliban right up until the attacks on the WTC because they were fighting the Northern Alliance; the NA were also drug producers.We funded one of the most immoral, oppressive, abusive regimes in the world right up until the time they killed thousands of innocents here on American soil.And guess who we are funding now? The drug lords of the Northern Alliance!When will we ever learn?[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 12-16-2002]

This country is not pro-war.George Bush is, and the lapdog, sycophantic mainstream US media is, too, but the county at large is more wary.This is because there is no clear moral reason for it.Thanks to our pro-war, pro Bush media, in a recent poll only 17% of Americans polled correctly identified the number of 9/11 suicide bombers as Iraqi.None of them were Iraqui. Almost all of them were Saudi.That means that many people think, have assumed because of media coverage of Iraq, that we are retaliating for Sept. 11.Sept 11 is so "last year" according to the Bush administration.The propaganda machine fans the flames of needless war.

Don't feed the troll.

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No clear moral reason for war in general? I totally
disagree. Maybe in a perfect hand-holding world, we'd have no moral reason for war, but the world is a vary dangerous place where a lot of people hate us. We need to have a strong defense. That's one of our government's primary functions.

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If you follow the thread, it is clear that I am not claiming this.

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If you are referring to Iraq, specifically, there are several reasons to go after them. One reason that stands out in my mind is the fact that Iraq actively funds terrorists in several nations, including our own.

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So does Saudi Arabia, Israel, Ireland, Pakistan, etc.Nearly every single 9/11 suicide bomber was Saudi, but we aren't going after them, are we?There are two big reasons we are careening towards war with Iraq;1) Bush is seeking revenge for the assasination attempt on his father, and2) Oil

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(Sarcasm)Could you be more rhetorical? Everyone knows that the majority of the hijackers were Saudi. Osama is Saudi. Saudi Arabia hates us as much as they hate Israel, if not more. It's only the oil sales and politics that hold them back. Your polls are meaningless.

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LOL!! The fact that only 17% of those polled in America COULDN'T IDENTIFY the correct number of Iraqis shows, very clearly, that everyone DOESN'T know that the hijackers were Saudi.You saying that "everyone knows" is contradicted by to poll, and you declaring that the poll is meaningless is, well, meaningless. Why is it meaningless?My point was to show that the US population wrongly thinks that Iraqis are behind the 9/11 bombing, and that is why we are going after them.

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I thought many suspect it's because of oil and weapons of mass destruction.

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Maybe, maybe not.

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Oh yeah, they fund terrorists too.

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So do lots of countries that we somehow manage to not go to war with, like Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.

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Pure speculation from a view that opposes our current administration no matter what.

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It is not pure speculation. When was the last time you heard anything about Afghanistan or Bin Laden or Al qaida from Bush?It is true, however, that I have little respect for the Shrub. I think he is possibly one of the most ill-informed, intellectually feeble, vacuous, uninspiring, war-loving losers to ever hold public office. He is a national embarrasment.

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I smell a Democrat. Will you vote for Lieberman

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I am actually an independent, and I would have voted for McCain in a heartbeat if the Republicans had had the balls to back him. Unfortunately, he looked like he was going to actually make campaign finance reform happen, so he bit it.

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The liberal propaganda machine fans the flames of needless destruction of American history and tradition.

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Huh?What "destruction of history and tradition" are you talking about?Also, how "liberal" do you think Disney and Time/Warner are?The mainstream media are "infotainment" now. They don't want to appear unpatriotic by opposing the President so nobody is doing the job that journalism is supposed to do; challenge authority for the public interest.

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lso, what does any of this have to do with Creationism, Evolution and the Public Schools?

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Not much.

I don't have time for a full response right now, but I have to mention this:

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That doesn't surprise me. I guess the Dems aren't liberal enough for you.

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I just told you I would have voted for JOHN McCAIN.The REPUBLICAN WAR-HERO.And no, the Democrats aren't progressive enough for me. There is very little difference between the two parties now. The republicans are mostly pretty far right wing and the Democrats are pretty much centrists for the most part.There is no "left" in the US that has any power or influence.Hell, Dick Nixon would have had to be a Democrat if he was alive today because he would have been way to "liberal" on the environment.Don't try to use that conservative tactic of saying that if one is liberal, left-leaning or progressive one is evil or a commie or anti-American.

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1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

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Native Americans were in North America 30,000 ago, many thousands of years before any Europeans came here.Does that mean it would be OK for them to get the UN to help them kick all of us out now so they could have their land back?

Liberal political policies made possible the following:work for millions of people during the Great Depression
the 5-day work week
child labor laws
come to mention it, any labor laws
the minimum wage
anti-discrimination in employment laws
fair housing laws
safe workplace laws
environmental & clean air/water laws protection laws
food safety laws
product safety laws
ended Jim Crow in the south"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."John Fitzgerald Kennedy"

Allison wrote: Hell, Dick Nixon would have had to be a Democrat if he was alive today because he would have been way to "liberal" on the environment.

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I'm not sure what you mean by this.

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You aren't sure what I mean??Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency!He also created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), and the Consumer Product Safety Commission.He was also the first president to require strict quotas for minorities for federal construction projects.He also made an anti-ballistic missle treaty with the Soviet Union.Compared to the Republicans today, Ol' Dick Nixon sounds like a regular left-wing Socialist, doesn't he?

I think that calling John an anti-Semite because he has criticized the Israeli government is pretty lame.Considering that Palestinians who live in Israel are not allowed to vote, I am not sure how you define Democracy.