Creationism, Evolution and the Public Schools

Great post, John. I've often encountered this erroneous argument from people trying to establish an Israeli "prior claim" to the area we call Palestine.Just a few comments/additions (for those who are interested in this fascinating region):

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1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

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This is incorrect. A group of Hebrew-speaking tribes left Mesopotamia between 1400 bce and settled in Canaan. A confederation of these tribes, known as the Israelites, conquered portions of Canaan from the Egyptians around 1200 bce, an area that is probably part of modern Syria. They were defeated by the Phoenician Sea Peoples who had settled in Philistia in battle around 1050 bce. However, it took another 300 years before they were able to conquer what is now known as Palestine. The Hebrew-speakers established control over most of the region after David conquered Jerusalem (formerly Jebus) in 975 bce. The kingdom was divided into Israel (under Saul) and Judah or Judea (under David). The northern Kingdom of Israel disappeared in the Assyrian conquest around 722 bce. The southern Kingdom of Judah hung around in a narrow strip from the edge of the Negev to just inside modern Syria for another 150 years or so, surrounded by desert on the east and in constant warfare with Philistia on the west until the Babylonian conquest of 585, when it too disappeared. IOW, Israel existed for about 250 years, and even the Hebrew control of the region in toto only lasted for around 400 years. If we want to play prior claim, better give it back to the Canaanites.

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4. Arabs have only had control of Israel twice - from 634 until the Crusader invasion in June 1099, and from 1292 until the year 1517 when they were dispelled by the Turks in their conquest.

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This is pretty funny. Arab, hunh? What do you think David’s Israelites were? A semitic tribe that originated in Arabia. The Israelites were as much Arab as the Babylonians, Akkadians, Assyrians, etc. If you’re referring to Islamic Arabs, then you’re pretty close to the mark. However, with the exception of the bits carved out by the Crusaders, the entire region has been dominated by Moslems since 636 (fall of Damascus), 637-38 (fall of Jerusalem) and 642 (fall of Alexandria).

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7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

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No, David conquered Jerusalem, and then established the capital of Judea there (for awhile, anyway). Mohammed never came to Jerusalem because he died in 632. However, the second Caliph Umar Ibn al-Khattab certainly did. Research the Covenant of Omar which guaranteed Christian religious freedom and access to the holy sites, and rescinded the Roman ban on Jews in Jerusalem. Interesting that it was a Moslem conqueror that rescinded the Byzantine Christian ban on Jews in the holy city, isn't it? Also interesting that there is a lot of evidence that Mohammed, as opposed to Jesus, was a true historical figure. Odd, hunh?[This message has been edited by Quetzal, 01-28-2003]

Erm, do you have a reference for this statement:

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The US, vor example, has armed them with the best weapons we have, including nuclear missiles.

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IIRC, Dimona was a French-designed and provided facility staffed by Israeli scientists. One rumor had it that some South African technicians had also worked there. The Israeli Jericho missile systems are also home-grown, as is the (supposedly) nuclear-capable Kfir fighter/bomber. Remember that Indian and Pakistani scientists were ALSO capable of developing nuclear devices for their respective countries. Just because the Israeli's live in the Middle East and have odious internal policies doesn't mean they're ignorant, especially with the nice leg-up the French gave them.It's okay to beat up on historical revisionists - just don't fall into the same trap.

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It's ok to be a hypocrite sometimes too, right? I'd consider some of your "data" in your post previous to this to be revisionist.

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Really? What part? The origin of the Israelites? The Hebrew conquest of Canaan and parts of Philistia? The timing of the Moslem conquest of Jerusalem? I love to read new sources with different information. If it's just a quibble over details, that's one thing. However, if there are major errors in the info I presented, feel free to provide them - I don't mind being convinced.

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Third request: Where can I find History books which speak of the truth? How do I discern between falsified history (or I believe the buzzword for this is revisionist history) and truthful history books?

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Actually a reasonable question (rather than your usual diatribe). It IS difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff and find any history of that region that is unbiased. However, after wading through a small mountain of material over the years, if you are in fact interested in the history of the area rather than just something that supports your preconceptions, I'd like to recommend:David Fromkin: "Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East" (takes you to the British Mandate). This one's a lot of fun because it really shows the Brits in a rather bad light ( for all my British friends). I think Fromkin goes a bit over the top (you could come away with the impression that people like Churchill, etc, were incompetent boobs, which is not the case), but overall an excellent, well-documented history.Howard M. Sachar: "A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time". This one does have a slight slant (I'll leave it to the reader to determine which way...), but provides a pretty good factual history of Israel from the late 19th Century to the late 1990's. Personally think Sachar is a bit naive and dovish - but that doesn't really detract from the factual account, which he does quite well.If you want to read two completely diametrically opposed viewpoints (in the sense of hearing the extremes of both sides and "making up your own mind), there are literally hundreds of volumes out there. However, two fairly representative examples:Benjamin Netanyahu: "A Durable Peace: Israel and Its Place Among the Nations". Nice pro-Israeli apologetic. A little whiny in places, however. One of the better "nationalist histories" out there. Netanyahu should have stuck to politics, unfortunately, he's not that great a writer...Sami Hadawi: "Bitter Harvest: A Modern History of Palestine". The seminal exemplar of anti-Israeli vitriol. If you want a book to support every myth you've ever cherished against Israel, this is the one for you. Of course, not all the facts are really quite as Hadawi portrays...Happy reading.