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Author Topic:   Open Question For Jerry Falwell (and those who agree with him)
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 169 of 180 (324948)
06-22-2006 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by arachnophilia
05-29-2006 7:50 AM


Re: a christian by any other name
The post I'm responding to is a month old, but I just saw it. I have to address this:
if we are judged to be christians or "not christians" by the heinousness of our deeds, then we will all fall far short of the mark.
rather, we are defined by our belief. it is our faith that makes us christians, and our faith (and the grace of god) that saves us. all of us.
Hmm. To quote your favorite Bible teacher, Arach, "They will know you are my disciples by your love for one another."
His brother, James (not sure if you believe it was his brother who wrote the letter, though) said, "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
While that last quote is not from Y'shua (Jesus), I think it's obvious he would have agreed. He describes a judgment in which he tells the sheep that they'll be rewarded because they visited the sick, fed the hungry, clothed the naked, etc., not because of what they believe.
We may mark who is a Christian by what they claim to believe, but Christ marks them by what they do. "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by arachnophilia, posted 05-29-2006 7:50 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by arachnophilia, posted 06-22-2006 4:22 PM truthlover has not replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 173 of 180 (325263)
06-23-2006 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by arachnophilia
06-22-2006 10:07 PM


Re: a christian by any other name
it is not about whether actions or faith make someone righteous. it is about christianity being defined by faith, not actions. we don't call someone a christian because they are righteous, we call them a christian because they profess belief.
You said earlier that faith produces love, works, etc. That's all fine, but here you say "we don't call someone a Christian because they are righteous," but Christ says that we call someone a Christian because they love one another. You can say faith produces love, but faith can't be seen. Love can be seen. Professing belief is utterly meaningless.
Thus, you may call everyone who professes belief a Christian, but a lot of people don't agree with you, and Christ is among them.
"Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven."
The profession of the Pharisees is that they were sons of Abraham. The profession of Christ was that they were sons of satan, vipers, hypocrites, disciples of hell, and several other none-too-favorable epithets.
I remember talking once with someone about faith in Christ, and a co-worker came in and joined in with me. The person I was talking to said to the co-worker, "I don't want to hear anything you have to say, because you're a hypocrite. Go away." My co-workers profession meant nothing to this person whose actions did not match up with his profession. I think most people feel that way.
Thus, I also disagree with your statement that:
if we are judged to be christians or "not christians" by the heinousness of our deeds, then we will all fall far short of the mark.
That is not true. Maybe none of us are perfect, but I have always been able to produce a list of people I knew who didn't fall short of the mark at all by my standards, and another list of people who are nothing but stinkin' hypocrites. Others are in between, but I've always known people who do not fall "far short" of the mark, but are wonderful representatives of the faith they profess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by arachnophilia, posted 06-22-2006 10:07 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by arachnophilia, posted 06-23-2006 10:45 PM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 179 of 180 (325645)
06-24-2006 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by arachnophilia
06-23-2006 10:45 PM


Re: a christian by any other name
there are people who represent christ better than others, yes. i'm just saying that our representation extended to how we act towards other christians.
At this point I'm willing to just drop the discussion. We've both had our say, and we'd just be repeating ourselves.
However, can you clarify--no, explain--this last statement. I don't have a clue what you mean by "our representation extended to how we act towards other christians." Maybe I'm just dense. If you're "just saying" that, though, then it's a summary sentence, and I guess I'd better stop and ask what it is you're concluding with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by arachnophilia, posted 06-23-2006 10:45 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by arachnophilia, posted 06-24-2006 5:27 PM truthlover has not replied

  
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