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Author | Topic: A question of numbers (one for the maths fans) | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ikabod Member (Idle past 4523 days) Posts: 365 From: UK Joined: |
QUOTE Blue is not just a wavelength of light. It is how our brains interpret that wave length when viewed through our eyes. Which is a separate thing from the actual wave length of blue light.QUOTE
if blues is seperate from the light wave , can i have a pound of blue please ...or in a pitch black totally unilluminated room can you tell if the floor is blue or not ..without the use of light waves . if i burn a sheet of blue paper , and retain all the atoms of the original blue sheet , where does the blue go ? sorry got total off topic , if .999999... is a number can i have a 0.99999.... ton block of lead ?? Edited by ikabod, : No reason given. Edited by ikabod, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
That wasn't n that was π
It might not be clear but that is pi.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
It is a number. It is another way of writing 1.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5020 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
riverrat writes: But that's what I am saying, 0.9999... is not a number. Of course it is!
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
RiveRrat
modulous writes: 10x-x = 9.999999... - 0.999999... RiVeRrat writes: You can't subtract .9999999.... logically. That assumes infinity has an end. x= 0.999... 10x shifts the decimal place one value to the right so this equals 9.999... We need not concern ourselves with the infinity aspect of the values to the right of the decimal since all we need to know is that they are equal to one another Logically you can since both sides of the equation{after the decimal point} are infinite numbers and they are of equal value.999... = .999... so subtracting equals from each other results in zero Hence the only way for the equation to balance is for 10x to equal 9.999... and .999... to equal 1 QED Dear Mrs Chown, Ignore your son's attempts to teach you physics. Physics isn't the most important thing. Love is. Best wishes, Richard Feynman.
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Maxwell's Demon Member (Idle past 6259 days) Posts: 59 From: Stockholm, Sweden Joined: |
How can you subtract 0.9999... from 9.9999 digit by digit if the digits have no end? You will never solve the equation. The numbers have no end, therefor the equation has no end. You don't have to subtract it digit by digit. (1) 9.999... -9 = 0.999... (1) can be accepted because we only have to subtract one digit, the integer nine. So there aren't an infinite number of digits to subtract. (2) But we also know that it's true that if a + b = c, then a -c = -b. Combine these (1) and (2) and you get: (3) 9.999... -0.999... = 9 I don't have to perform the subtraction digit per digit in infinity to know this is true, because I know it follows logically from (1) and (2), both of which don't include subtracting of digits in infinity.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Here you can read up on some of our discussions about sound and light. I think we covered most of it there.
If a tree falls
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
We can only approximate it.
I use pi all the time, and 3.14 gets me close enough.
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
what I am saying, 0.9999... is not a number Well then what is it? While I'm at it I think part of your problem stems from your using a personal definition of infinity. What is your mathamatical definition of infinity? Btw do you accept that this is a well established proof in mathematics? i.e. recognized and accepted by mathematicians? So why would they do this if it's wrong? I suggest you need to update your math knowledge rather than try to change mathematics to fit your intuitive sense of how it should be. lfen
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5550 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
riVeRraT writes: That's seems to be self contradictory. If you get why 0.999...=1, how can you not agree with the math?
It's not like I don't get why .9999...= 1, I do. I just don't agree with the math. I can prove that 0.9999... = 1 also Sorry but I can't help it. 0.333... is not a whole number.1/3 of a circle with the circumference of 1 yard = 0.333333.... 1 yard = 0.914400 meters 1/3 of 0.914400 = 0.3048 0.3048 meters = 0.33333....yards. So 0.3333... is a whole number.
Now do it in reverse, and you will find that 0.99999=1 You seem to have only a tenuous grasp of what a mathmatical proof is supposed to look like.
The real problem lies in that we do not have an accurate way of expressing 1/3 in decimals. isn't 0.333... accurate? why not?
If 0.9999... is representing something in the universe, and our universe is infinate, then the number can go on, and on without ever being 1. The digits don't have to go on and on one at a time. they can come all at once. ever heard of math recursion?
If the universe is finate, then 0.9999... will eventually come to an end, then infinity only exists in our subjective minds. can you explain to me how did you sneak god into the conversasion?
That means that 0.9999.... = God.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
But pi is different from an infinetly repeating decimal. It is an infinetly nonrepeating decimal, which makes it irrational. This is the problem pythagoras ran into in Greece--they didn't like the concept of an irrational number (if I've got my history right). You can't write pi as a fraction, but you can .3333 to inifity.
All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, the Egyptians and babylonians did write Pi as a series of fractions, and worked quite well with them.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5550 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
riVeRraT writes: could you answer the question instead of dodging it?
There is nothing "all" about infinity.I also do not neccesarly think infinity actually can exist either. It's only a thought, not a number. Sure it is not a member of the Z set. But not being an integer number doesn't make infinity non-existent.How can you subtract 0.9999... from 9.9999 digit by digit if the digits have no end? You will never solve the equation. The numbers have no end, therefor the equation has no end. ever thought there might be other ways to do it besides longhand? ever wondered why it's called longhand?
So if .9999...=1 then infinity does not exist. How does 0.999...=1 prevents infinity from existing? This only happens if the number is actually representing something. We are talking about pure math here. The fact that the number may or may not represent anything is completely besides the point.
Is it impossible for a number to not represent something?
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5550 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
riVeRraT writes: Ok I'll try. The problem is that you are using a finite symbol to represent infinity. Try writing it out. 0.999... Ok, I'm done. what was the fuss about?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
We need not concern ourselves with the infinity aspect of the values to the right of the decimal since all we need to know is that they are equal to one another Says who? Since you can't get the end of the number, then you never really know if it is equal or not. It is not an absolute. Can you prove infinity exists?
By some[citation needed], infinity is considered to be not a number but a concept of increase beyond bounds. Infinity - Wikipedia I am in over my head here, and the conversation will get deeper than my knowledge. I do pocess the capability to figure this stuff out. I hope to go to college one day soon. I have been too busy with the school of life. But the way I see it, and this is from ignorance, it's not that 10 can't be divided by 3, it's that it can't be expressed correctly with our number system. I started reading about other number systems that can express it correctly, but I just don't have the time. Saying 0.9999... = 1 means that infinity resolves to something in this case. But infinity cannot resolve, it is suppose to go on and on. So I find there is a problem.
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