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Author Topic:   A question of numbers (one for the maths fans)
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 123 of 215 (325925)
06-24-2006 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by cavediver
06-24-2006 5:43 AM


Re: rejecting maths
It's not the typesetting, it's teaching formal mathematics to an engineer
Hey now, some of us engineers actually get that formal math stuff

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 Message 98 by cavediver, posted 06-24-2006 5:43 AM cavediver has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 124 of 215 (325926)
06-24-2006 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by riVeRraT
06-24-2006 11:04 PM


Re: elementary algebra
Look up the definition of infinity, you'll find out that it is just a concept.
That's correct, it's a VERY important mathematical concept.
The entire discipline of calculus is largely based upon this concept being valid. The computer you are using is dependent on that concept being valid (electron potential wells, circuit analysis, etc).
Infinity is a perfectly valid concept.

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 Message 120 by riVeRraT, posted 06-24-2006 11:04 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 125 of 215 (325927)
06-24-2006 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by riVeRraT
06-24-2006 11:12 PM


limilts and series
To really understand infinity you need to learn about limits and series....
Seriously, once you understand inifinite series having finite sums and limits it will all make sense to you.
Pre-calculus and introductory calculus is a great place to start.

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 137 of 215 (326063)
06-25-2006 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by riVeRraT
06-25-2006 9:41 AM


ack
You cannot prove infinity. I am 40 years old, and for the first half of my life, I believed infinity could exist. For the second half, I started to doubt it. There is a possibility that infinity does not exist.
I'm not sure what you mean..... Infinity is a mathematical concept that has been defined by humans. It certainly does exist as a mathematical concept and is perfectly valid. Infinity (when discussing mathematics) is like an imaginary number.... it's something we have given a definition to because it is a useful concept.
There is no question of infinity existing in a mathematical sense.

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 Message 134 by riVeRraT, posted 06-25-2006 9:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by riVeRraT, posted 06-25-2006 10:42 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 145 of 215 (326077)
06-25-2006 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by riVeRraT
06-25-2006 10:29 AM


Re: last digit
I get it, believing .999... = 1 requires a leap of faith.
No, you STILL DON'T understand.
Infinity is simply an abstract mathematical concept that WE have defined.
There is no leap of faith. You are confusing some generic concept of inifinity with the mathematical definition of infinity.
.9999............ = 1 is true under the system of mathematics that humans have defined for our use. There is no leap of faith or anythiing. It's like an imaginary number. It exists in our system of mathematics under definitions we have created for it.

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 148 of 215 (326082)
06-25-2006 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by riVeRraT
06-25-2006 10:42 AM


Re: ack
I am not the only to think this.
Have you ever taken Calculus or studied infinite series? If not, I can totally understand how some of this wouldn't make sense.
The proof of .9999.............. = 1 using the limit of a converging series is rock solid. Once you can understand that proof everything will make sense to you.
Maybe this will help:
http://www.math.utah.edu/...on/teaching/calculus/series.html
The key to all this is that .9999...... is a CONVERGENT series.
http://www.maths.abdn.ac.uk/.../tch/ma2001/notes/node49.html
Here's one more page on it...
Series - Wikipedia(mathematics)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by riVeRraT, posted 06-25-2006 10:42 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5863 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 198 of 215 (326235)
06-25-2006 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by riVeRraT
06-25-2006 11:23 PM


good point
we just don't know if infinity will ever exist but inside our own subjective minds.
You may be correct in a general sense. Of course the infinity we are discussing here is a mathematical concept created by humans so it certainly exists as an abstract concept
It's like a word... Does a word really exist outside of the abstract concept of language?

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