boasts of Athiests II

PD, you are performing feats of mental acrobatics to deny the obvious. Trickery.First you define boasting as trying to hurt someone, by appealing to a rather oddball definition that you think disqualifies Robin's view of the examples given, and then you dismiss Robin's definition of self-praise even though it is one of the definitions at an official dictionary site.I never did share Robin's FEELINGS about any of this, but I do think objecting to his use of the word "boasting" is some kind of deviousness. Maybe it was Robin's disgust with boasting that you're all reacting against, but then you can hardly claim objectivity about the definitions in that case.Accepting the simple definition of self-praise, the truth is all the examples given are of boasting. That's just a fact. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Of course now we're told that returning shopping carts is not about doing a good deed. Funny, I thought he said that he was annoyed that people don't return their carts. Obviously a moral judgment it seems to me.Now I want to see a picture of your grandson's eyes.

Would that be an example of the boasting that you complain about

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

Getting to be quite a habit of yours isn't it? while in reality, what jar said was: Now I know that you love reaading stuff into what others say and then alleging that they infact said what is in YOUR mind, but come on.Since it looks like you were not able to understand the little story, I'll try walking you through it.The key point of the incident was this paragraph: The guy and I had a ball. We played like kids. We laughed, ran too fast for tired old arthritic bodies, giggled and in general simply enjoyed a wondrous moment.It's really sad that you missed the whole point of the story and that you seem incapable of appreciating the joy and wonder that GOD provides for us, whether in the beauty and simplicity and grace of the Theory of Evolution or the awe at the age of rocks or mountains or fossils or the expanse of this marvelous universe.It's sad, and I pity you and I will continue praying that someday GOD will lift the blinders from your eyes.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Sorry, jar, I did misread your post, and didn't go back to reread.

We all have that happen. Thanks.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think something got out of proportion on this topic with the focus on boasting as such, and then it deteriorated further with the quibbling over definitions of the term. While I do agree with Robin that there's something obnoxious about the examples he gave, after thinking about it some more I don't think it's the boasting as such, but that what is being boasted about is these very accommodations to life that he has identified as lowering our expectations.THAT's the real problem, that we pretend we're satisfied with compromises and then insist on making our pretenses into virtues. So we pep-talk it up how much satisfaction is to be found in life as it is if we will only put ourselves in the right frame of mind toward it, magnify the ordinary little pleasures of life for instance.But this amounts to denial in the context of a human nature that naturally seeks fulfillments beyond what reality has to offer, and I agree with Robin that this does define the human condition. The problem with this discussion is that nobody wants to admit to this and keeps arguing with it, and insisting that various compromises and accommodations satisfy them just fine. That's what the boasting was about, proving that life as it is offers everything we could (or should) ever want, and it's only a personal fault if someone does not find it to be so.But the argument isn't a subjective one, it's objective. It's about human nature as such, not about personal reactions to life. But you all insist on making it into something subjective. That forces a person finally to point out that the pleasures and virtues you all make so much of are shared by those arguing this case too, that there is no failure of small daily pleasures or "wonders" and so on, but the contention is that these are compromises with our imagination that wants more out of reality than can be had.Robin said I must have a religious angle on all this. The angle of course is that Christ is the answer. Everything human beings were made for ultimately finds fulfillment in Him. I can suggest as did Augustine and others that our having an imagination that outstrips reality is really the "God-shaped hole" that can only be filled by God Himself. And I can suggest that the overall dilemma itself, of a creature that wants more than reality can give, reflects the Fall, our built-in sin nature, the curse on humanity and on nature itself, that puts everything in life out of whack.But there's no point in suggesting answers while people aren't recognizing that there is a problem or a question, while everybody is insisting that life as it is provides everything the human soul could desire, which is what this whole flap about boasting is really all about.So I guess since everybody but Robin is quite satisfied with life as it is, the Answer has to be addressed to him.However, what's ironic about this is that Robin ISN'T unhappy with things as they are. Like everybody else he's made his compromises and lowered his expectations and finds pleasure and happiness in life as it is, convinced himself that's all there is and he can live with it just fine. The argument he's been raising is philosophical and academic and he's not seeking answers, he's just interested in the philosophical point itself, as a lover of truth.The difference from the "boasters" is not that he hasn't found ways to be happy in this life as they have, but that he would never boast about his happinesses and pleasures, and does recognize that they are compromises with a reality his imagination far outstrips.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Seriously, I think we should get that title change in the works. If the phrasing I suggested earlier doesn't grab ya, we could also go with:If It's True About Me, It's True About Everybody (Flirt With Schraf)I'm open to a rephrase, but I'm gonna have to insist on the parenthetical. It gives the thread a little zazz. Can I borrow the device that allows you to see into the minds of others? I have a casino trip coming up, and it'd be ass-useful at the blackjack table. Maybe something like:If I Say It, It's True (Flirt With Schraf)Edited by Dan Carroll, : spelling

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

I am having difficulty making sense of this.You seem to be objecting to compromise. But Christianity is one gigantic compromise -- "ok, you will be let off as long as you have faith".Or are you just saying

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

Some here have suggested that these last two threads have demonstrated a lowering of expectations and imagination outrunning reality.I disagee.Instead, what I see in the examples found in these threads is a celebration of the fact that Reality far exceeds even our wildest imaginings and a call to expand our expectations.We have been given testament after testament to the wonder and awe to be found in everyday living, to the grandeur of even simple things, moments in the sea of experience. We have heard exhortation after exhortation to joyfully catch what is there, not as a project, not as some special event, but as the moment passes, to capture it, savour it, enjoy it.The wonder is there, in watching a child learn to balance on one foot or to skip or to blow bubbles or learn the secret of reading or to run when you are really way too old to be running around parking lots in 98 degree weather.This is not boasting, it is celebration.It is not self praise but a joyous affirmation of life itself.Now some might expect me as a Christian to place a religious slant on this, and I will.GOD has given us the ability to see, to experience, to know that there are always Answers to Question. There will never be an end to the Answers we can Question. That is the wonder, the constant awe inspiring reality to life.GOD has given us this universe for us to question, to observe, to catalog, to immerse ourselves in the stream called living.Edited by jar, : appaling spalling

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm not against compromises. We all have to make compromises with life, we have no choice. And if we can be content with them that's a plus too.What I'm trying to focus on is the radical disconnect between our desires and imaginations and life as we find it, human nature itself, which seems to have been made for so much more than is available.Christ fulfills it all. No compromises there. Dreams you never dreamt come true.

To me it's all the same whether it's boasting or self-praise, or joyous affirmation, or celebration, all being expended on something less than the human soul was made for and ultimately a self delusion or pretense. Not that those things aren't sources of happiness. Not arguing that.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So are you saying that people basically can't really be truly happy (fulfilled maybe?) unless they believe what you do?Or am I misunderstanding you?

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Oops! Wrong Planet

I'm not SAYING that here, no, but I do believe that perfect human fulfillment is in Jesus Christ, yes -- reversal of the Fall, reinstatement of communication with God, recovery of the image of God in us, the promise of unimaginable glories.All I'm saying HERE, however, is that I agree with Robin that human nature seems to have been designed for a lot more than this life offers. It's something some may recognize in themselves no matter what their beliefs.I'm also not saying that people (atheists in this case) can't find happiness in this life, because of course many do seem to be quite happy with their lives and even die happy. I just think it's a lot less than they were made for, whether they see it or not.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

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Oops! Wrong Planet