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Author | Topic: Lebanon In End Time Bible Prophecy | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Example. Tyre & Sidon...prophesied that multinational forces in two separate assaults would tear down Tyre and scrape it's foundations into the sea...done...the second assault by Alexander the Great who got so mad at their escape to the Island of Sidon that he took all the remains of the city and built a causeway out to Sidon and killed them all. Look it up and try to refute it. You gonna have a hard time selling that old chestnut at this site. It might fly on some but sure won't fly here. Hint (look on map and see where Sidon is) Hint 2 (read some of the biographies of Alex) Hint 3 (check and see why the fortress of Tyre was still standing and functional less than two decades later) Hint 4 (check and see why it was STILL standing and functional when the Crusaders showed up) Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
give your sources...National Geographic has a pictorial about a decade ago about Tyre still being uninhabited.
And that was only one of several prophecies I gave as examples...what about the rest or will we only debate this one? "...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Lets toss this one on the ashheap then we can move on to the others. But I have NEVER seen someone who has been able to support ANY Biblical Prophecy lessen they were made after the fact.
Tyre is most certainly occupied today, and has been continuously since long before the Bible was written. For a recent discussion of the Tyre saga here (these things tend to come up pretty regularly) see Message 1.
give your sources...National Geographic has a pictorial about a decade ago about Tyre still being uninhabited. Doubt that VERY much. Try Google Earth and look for yourself. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
You claimed Alexander did not assault Tyre...
"The siege of Tyre had a lasting effect, for the mole stayed, silted up, and today Tyre is connected to the mainland. Alexander, in his drive to conquer, permanently changed the face of the land. It is deeds like these that drive the many legends of Alexander and made him famous from his day to ours." History of Western CivilizationE.L. Skip Knox Boise State University I am still getting more cites from historians...more to come
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You claimed Alexander did not assault Tyre... Nope, never made such a claim. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
"Alexander did far more against Tyre than Shalmaneser or Nebuchadnezzar had done. Not content with crushing her, he took care that she never should revive; for he founded Alexandria as her substitute, and changed forever the track of the commerce of the world." (Edward Creasy, Fifteen Decisive Battles of the World, ch. 4).
Shall I go on? How about the University of Cambridge Ancient Histories? "...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
Well what about it? Daniel 2, 9 & 11 the coming world kingdoms and the timing of the messiah?
Ignored those... More to come! As time permits! "...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables" |
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sure, go on. None of those change the facts.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
You said to read some histories of Alexander the Great so I am posting some here!
"TyreThe only Phoenician city that refused to come to terms was Tyre (Sur in the language of its inhabitants, "rock"), and Alexander knew that the siege was going to last for months. The situation was more or less comparable to Halicarnassus: he was besieging a harbor town, the enemy had excellent ships and could come and go as they liked. The difference was that the fortifications of Halicarnassus had been protected by a ditch of only fifteen meters wide and that the walls of Tyre were protected by the sea: the old city was built on an island. Another difference was that the capture of Tyre was strategically unnecessary. Tyre had offered surrender, but had refused Alexander the right to sacrifice in the temple of Melqart during the great festival in February, because only a native king could perform the necessary religious ceremonies. Alexander had felt insulted and had insisted, and this was the sole cause of the siege. No Persian king had ever made such an outrageous demand. In January 332, the siege began. The consequences were clear at once: the Tyrians were forced to recall the ships that had been fighting in the Aegean sea. Since the other Phoenician towns had already recalled their ships after the towns had surrendered to the Macedonians, the Persian naval offensive in the Aegean sea came to an end. To reach the Tyrian walls, the Macedonians built a mole. But the Tyrians still commanded the sea and made the construction extremely difficult. Alexander needed ships to protect the construction, and he was lucky, because Aradus, Tripolis, Byblus, Beirut and Sidon had just recalled their navies. In July, the town was attacked from three sides: the Phoenician fleet destroyed the Tyrian fleet in the "Egyptian port"; Macedonian ships attacked the walls with siege engines; and marines from Cyprus landed in the 'Sidonian port' and forced their way into the city. The siege mole had, after all, been useless.According to our sources, 6,000 Tyrians were killed during the fighting in the streets (many of which were so narrow that it was easy to step from roof to roof across the street). 4,000 Macedonians were wounded, perhaps 500 were killed. Alexander's indulged in his anger: he ordered 2,000 Tyrians to be crucified on the beach (text)." Error 404 - Livius Okay I've cited historians who say that Tyre was sacked by multinational forces, Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander and others which you disputed. Alexander built the causeway out to the Island of Sidon by using the stones from the city. Prophecy fulfilled. National Geographic pictorial showing fishermen drying their nets on the bare rocks of Tyre. There is an old saying...Denial is not refutation. All you and those like you do is say, "it didnt happen and you twist to make it fit after the fact" but when directly confronted you fail to respond. And you still have yet to respond to Daniel 2, 9 & 11. "...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No Alexander DID not build the causeway out to Sidon. Sidon is another town to the north and was actually an ally of Alex.
Alex filnally made a breach in the wall. But He DID NOT level Tyre, and even left the magistrates in charge after he worshipped in the Temple there. Tyre was never scrubbed down to rock and NEVER stopped functioning as a city and a fortress. You can try to sell that stuff if you want but that dog ain't gonna hunt here. Did you even read the thread Message 1? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
give me a credible source not someone's post. Why do all the historians disagree with you? University of Cambridge Ancient Histories etc...
I gave you sources give me some. And still no responses to Daniel 2, 9 & 11. When I debated in college lack of response meant acquisence. A point of logic I think you can grasp. If you fail to respond the argument stands. Edited by ReformedRob, : left out a point "...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
None of them disagree with me. You just are reading what YOU want and not what they or the prophecy said.
Look, this is an old canard we been over a zillion times. If you want to believe it, fine. If you want more info read the thread. But you ain't selling that snake-oil here, leastwise not to me.
Message 1 Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReformedRob Member (Idle past 5751 days) Posts: 143 From: Anthem AZ, USA Joined: |
That thread is irrelevant.
I challenged you to be responsible and back up what you said. You didnt. You couldnt provide one source. Ever heard the standard 'He who asserts must prove?' You asserted and referred to another post. that is not proof and yes I looked at the atheists little story which has nothing to do withthis. Ezekiel was written 593-573 BC predicting that Tyre would be besieged by many nations including Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander in 322 BC. it was fulfilled what part dont you get? Explain how Ezekiel knew that many nations would do it hundreds of years before it was done? And Tyre was never the same again. It wasnt rebuilt as it was. A modern city by the ruins in the silt and partially over them does not equal Tyre being rebuilt. Ruins that are still there does not equal rebuilt. Tyre was an important seaport and was never the same. Prophecy fulfilled. "Tyre, built on an island and the neighbouring mainland, was probably originally founded as a colony of Sidon to the north and was mentioned in Egyptian records of the 14th century BC as being subject to Egypt. It became independent when Egyptian influence in Phoenicia declined and soon surpassed Sidon as a trade centre, developing commercial relations with all parts of the Mediterranean world. In the 9th century BC colonists from Tyre founded in northern Africa the city of Carthage, which later became Rome's principal rival in the West. The town is frequently mentioned in the Bible as having had close ties with Israel. Hiram, King of Tyre, furnished building materials for Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem (10th century), and the notorious Jezebel, wife of King Ahab, was the daughter of Ethbaal "King of Tyre and Sidon." In the 10th and 9th centuries Tyre probably enjoyed some primacy over the other cities of Phoenicia and was ruled by kings whose power was limited by a merchant oligarchy. For a mosaic of the ethnic groups that form the peoples of the Middle East, click "Present." These ethnic groups are not all Arabs, as most people think.A MUST SEE: Photographic galleries of Phoenicia through the lens of Peter Brown, a Lithuanian/ Scottish American. Visit his site by clicking on the image of Tyre below. For much of the 8th and 7th centuries the town was subject to Assyria, and in 585-573 it successfully withstood a prolonged siege by the Babylonian King Nebuchadrezzar II. Between 538 and 332 it was ruled by the Achaemenian Kings of Persia. In this period it lost its hegemony in Phoenicia but continued to flourish. Probably the most famous episode in the history of Tyre was its resistance to the army of the Macedonian conqueror, Alexander the Great, who took it after a seven-month siege in 332, using floating batteries and building a causeway to gain access to the island. After its capture, 10,000 of the inhabitants were put to death, and 30,000 were sold into slavery. Alexander's causeway, which was never removed, converted the island into a peninsula. Tyre was subsequently under the influence of Ptolemaic Egypt and in 200 became part of the Hellenistic Seleucid kingdom; it finally came under Roman rule in 68 BC. It was often mentioned in the New Testament and was famous in Roman times for its silk products and for a purple dye extracted from snails of the genus Murex. By the 2nd century AD it had a sizable Christian community, and the Christian scholar Origen was buried there (c. 254). Under Muslim rule from 638 to 1124, Tyre grew prosperous as part of the kingdom of Jerusalem, a crusader state in the 12th and 13th centuries. The Holy Roman emperor Frederick I Barbarossa, who died on the Third Crusade, was buried in its cathedral (1190). Captured and destroyed by the Muslim Mamluks in 1291, the town never recovered its former importance. The silted up harbour on the south side of the peninsula has been excavated by the French Institute for Archaeology in the Near East, but most of the remains of the Phoenician period still lie beneath the present town. Tyre was built in ancient times on a small rocky island near the coast. In the 10th century BC, King Kiram of Tyre constructed two ports and a temple on the mainland sector of the city. This was the era when the famous industries of Phoenician glass and purple dye were developed. Behind the walls of the old city the Tyrians successfully defied Nebuchadnezzar for 13 years. Alexander the Great also laid seige to it for 7 months, finally overwhelming the island city by constructing a great causeway from the shore to the island. Over the centuries, however, the causeway was silted up, turning Tyre into an isthmus. In biblical times it was in Qana (Cana) near Tyre that Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding feast. In 1980, modern Tyre's impressive Roman and Phoenician remains prompted UNESCO to make the town one of its world heritage sites."http://phoenicia.org/cities.html Maybe you should read Ezekiel 26 for yourself including the poetic imagery. Tyre was never the same again and was destroyed by multinational forces as prophecied. Again a modern city there has nothing to do with the fulfillment of this prophecy. You guys grasp at straws to disbelieve the obvious. My signature quote here from IITimothy applies well to you guys. Good nite and God Bless. "...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Begging your pardon.. but if you want, you can go on the net, to the tourism section, and see that Tyre is a thriving community of fisherman... If it was uninhabintated, I guess those Tyre fisherman they showed getting drunk while the israeli rockets were falling on Hezbullah targets were a figment of the imagination.
Here is a link to the modern Tyre. It has some of the roman age ruins, but it also has modern streets and people. Tyre (Sour) City, Lebanon Edited by ramoss, : No reason given.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
When I debated in college lack of response meant acquisence. A point of logic I think you can grasp. If you fail to respond the argument stands. Has Ray got a new Internet provider? Brian.
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