|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Are you going to include Theraputic Touch, Pyramid Power, and witch doctors to the list alongside Homeopathy? The reason I ask is because if any of them work, it's for the same reason; the placebo effect.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Define "balance". Define "imbalance".
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
There is actually no credible link between vaccinations and autism, according to the major studies I've seen.
From quackwatch.com
Some parents of children with autism believe that there is a link between measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism.
However, there is no sensible reason to believe that any vaccine can cause autism or any kind of behavioral disorder. Typically, symptoms of autism are first noted by parents as their child begins to have difficulty with delays in speaking after age one. MMR vaccine is first given to children at 12-15 months of age. Since this is also an age when autism commonly becomes apparent, it is not surprising that autism follows MMR immunization in some cases. However, by far the most logical explanation is coincidence, not cause-and-effect. If measles vaccine or any other vaccine causes autism, it would have to be a very rare occurrence, because millions of children have received vaccines without ill health effects. The only "evidence" linking MMR vaccine and autism was published in the British journal Lancet in 1998 . An editorial published in the same issue, however, discussed concerns about the validity of the study . Based on data from 12 patients, Dr. Andrew Wakefield (a British gastroenterologist) and colleagues speculated that MMR vaccine may have been the possible cause of bowel problems which led to a decreased absorption of essential vitamins and nutrients which resulted in developmental disorders like autism. No scientific analyses were reported, however, to substantiate the theory. Whether this series of 12 cases represent an unusual or unique clinical syndrome is difficult to judge without knowing the size of the patient population and time period over which the cases were identified. If there happened to be selective referral of patients with autism to the researchers' practice, for example, the reported case series may simply reflect such referral bias. Moreover, the theory that autism may be caused by poor absorption of nutrients due to bowel inflammation is senseless and is not supported by the clinical data. In at least 4 of the 12 cases, behavioral problems appeared before the onset of symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease. Furthermore, since publication of their original report in February of 1998, Wakefield and colleagues have published another study in which highly specific laboratory assays in patients with inflammatory bowel disease, the posited mechanism for autism after MMR vaccination, were negative for measles virus . Other recent investigations also do not support a causal association between MMR (or other measles-containing vaccines) and autism or inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) . In one investigation, a Working Party on MMR Vaccine of the United Kingdom's Committee on Safety of Medicines (1999) was charged with the evaluation of several hundred reports, collected by a firm of lawyers, of autism, Crohn's disease, or similar disorders developing after receipt of MMR or MR vaccines. The Working Party conducted a systematic, standardized review of parental and physician information. Although acknowledging that it is impossible to prove or refute the suggested associations (because of variable data quality, biased selection of cases, and lack of a control group), the Working Party concluded that the information available "... did not support the suggested causal associations or give cause for concern about the safety of MMR or MR vaccines." In March 2000, a Medical Research Council report concludes that between March 1998 and September 1999 no new evidence had suggested a causal link between MMR and autism or IBD . The American Medical Association has reached the same conclusion. A study by Taylor and colleagues provides population-based evidence that overcomes many of the limitations faced by the Working Party and by Wakefield and colleagues . The authors identified all 498 known cases of autism spectrum disorders (ASD) in certain districts of London born in 1979 or later and linked them to an independent regional vaccination registry. ASD includes classical autism, atypical autism, and Asperger's syndrome, but the results were similar when cases of classical autism were analyzed separately. The authors noted: The first diagnosis of autism or initial signs of behavioral regression were not more likely to occur within time periods following vaccination than during other time periods. A study of the population of children in two communities in Sweden also found no evidence of an association between MMR vaccination and autism . That study found no difference in the prevalence of autism in children born after the introduction of MMR vaccination in Sweden compared with children born before. In January 1990, an Institute of Medicine committee examining possible health effects associated with DPT vaccine concluded that there was no evidence to indicate a causal relation between DPT vaccine or the pertussis component of DPT vaccine and autism . Also, data obtained from CDC's Monitoring System for Adverse Events Following Immunization (MASAEFI) system, showed no reports of autism occurring within 28 days of DPT immunization from 1978-1990, a period in which approximately 80.1 million doses of DPT vaccine were administered in the United States. From January 1990 through February 1998, only 15 cases of autism behavior disorder after immunization were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS). Because of the small number of reports over an 8-year period, the cases reported are likely to represent unrelated chance occurrences that happened around the time of vaccination. The most frequent vaccines cited in the reports were diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (DPT), oral polio vaccine (OPV), and MMR. Other vaccines reported as having a possible association with autism were Haemophilus influenzae type B and Hepatitis B. Although the possible association with MMR vaccine has received much public and political attention and there are many who have derived their own conclusions based on personal experiences, the available evidence does not support the hypothesis that MMR vaccine causes autism or associated disorders or IBD. Separate administration of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines to children provides no benefit over administration of the combination MMR vaccine and would result in delayed or missed immunizations.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Found a study regarding castor oil absorption through the skin for you:
Meridian Institute - Home Page
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: quote: This is a large part of the problem. All "evidence" is far from equivalent, especially what is available on the internet. There is far, far, far more baseless garbage and outright quackery available on the internet on this subject than there is reliable, well-researched, well-documented, science-based information. That's because it's far easier to make stuff up and sell it to the uninformed and fearful than it is to do an exhaustive literature search, collect the data, make sure you have the background to understand the data and be able to detect any problems and issues with it, and then put it all together into an easily-understood format for the layperson. (Such a place does exist, however, here, and you already linked to it. It's like when I was researching the claim that castor oil packs, when laid on the skin over the liver, could cleanse the liver of excess estrogen. No matter what search terms I used, the vast majority of hits were of people (most were selling something) simply asserting that this sort of "treatment" was effective. I only found a single report of an honest attempt at verifying this claim, with negative results. So, am I to believe, or even give a moment's consideration to all of those sites which make this unfounded claim just because that's what the average person is going to run into? Or should I maintain my strict standards of what I will accept as legitimate evidence and reject those bald assertions? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I think that with so many children in daycare these days, containment will be a much greater issue than in the fairly recent past.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I don't think that vaccines work like that. Is it even possible to develop resistance to vaccines? Wouldn't that be like developing a resistance to one's own immune system? Since what a vaccine does is induce the body to produce antibodies to a pathogen without actually having to get the full-blown disease, I really don't understand how resistance to it would work.
quote: Sure it's possible, but not all that likely. It's more likely that, like in species in the wild, we would be plagued by outbreaks of various diseases that result in death and maiming of a certain percentage of offspring. Some years it infects many, fewer in other years, but it's always there. OTOH, vaccinations have literally or virtually eliminated many of these diseases.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: When the disease is completely gone, and gone for a long time. The thing is, that is a very difficult thing to bring about. For example, we don't vaccinate people against smallpox anymore. However, we do keep strains of it alive in secure labs, just in case it emerges and we need to make vaccines again. AFAIK, all of the diseases we currently vaccinate againt still exist, many thriving, elsewhere in the world.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
but there has been a recent increase due to resistance of parents to the MMR vaccine PD, I think that the report meant "resistance" in that the parents were "resitant" to getting their children vaccinated, not "resistance" like "antibiotic resistance". IOW, we see this outbreak of Measles because parents didn't vaccinate their children against it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Buz, your cut n pastes contain falsehoods and inaccuracies. In addition, Pringle, the author of the first one is a journalist with no training, AFAICT, in medicine or science.
quote: Go to this link to read a well-referenced, science-based article about autism. It contains up to date information on ongoing autism research and links to even more detailed info.
quote: I have sympathy for those parents, but the research simply does not show a causal link.
link Because manufacturers stopped using thimerosal in children’s vaccines in 2000, few children now under age four have ever received a thimerosal-containing vaccine. Even those born to Rh-negative mothers (who received at least one dose of thimerosal-containing RhoGam during pregnancy) have gotten far less thimerosal than older children. If thimerosal were a major cause of autism, we should see a drop in autism incidence, which has yet to materialize. Denmark mandated removal of thimerosal from vaccines in 1992. Even allowing for continued use of thimerosal-containing stocks of vaccine, Danish children were thimerosal-free by 1995. Autism prevalence in Denmark has risen in exactly the same fashion as in the United States and the United Kingdom. So, do you concede that thimerosal is not likely a cause of autism, given the reality of the numbers, buz?
quote: Wonderful track records? Care to show any documentation to back that up? And how do you feel about the fact that most herbs and other products sold as "natural" cures are completely untested for either safety of efficacy? It is also true that we have little to no knowledge of how any of these substances act in combination with other drugs, herbal or otherwise, or foods? We don't know if certain ethnicities should avoud certain substances, we don't know if there are gender differences in effect, we don't know if some are safe for children or pregnant women, etc. etc. This is because the "nutritional supplement" industry, an extremely profitable multi-billion dollar industry, is not required to show that it's products are safe or effective, or even of consistent potentcy. Many herbs are powerful drugs, buz, and most people taking and prescribing them are fooling themselves if they think that they are safer than synthetic drugs.
link When potent natural substances are discovered, drug companies try to isolate and synthesize the active chemical in order to provide a reliable supply. They also attempt to make derivatives that are more potent, more predictable, and have fewer side effects. In the case of digitalis, derivatives provide a spectrum of speed and duration of action. Digitalis leaf is almost never used today because its effects are less predictable. Many herbs contain hundreds or even thousands of chemicals that have not been completely cataloged. Some of these chemicals may turn out to be useful as therapeutic agents, but others could well prove toxic. In the United States, herbs intended for preventive or therapeutic use would be regulated as drugs under federal laws. To evade the law, these products are marketed as "foods" or "dietary supplements" without health claims on their labels. Since herbs are not regulated as drugs, no legal standards exist for their processing, harvesting, or packaging. In many cases, particularly for products with expensive raw ingredients, contents and potency are not accurately disclosed on the label. Many products marked as herbs contain no useful ingredients, and some even lack the principal ingredient for which people buy them. Surveys have found have found that the ingredients and doses of several products varied considerably from brand to brand. To make a rational decision about an herbal product, it would be necessary to know what it contains, whether it is safe, and whether it has been demonstrated to be as good or better than pharmaceutical products available for the same purpose. For most herbal ingredients this information is incomplete or unavailable. Even worse, most published information about herbs is unreliable. The late Varro E. Tyler, Ph.D., former dean of the Purdue University School of Pharmacy and a leading authority on pharmacognosy (the science of medicines from natural sources), observed: More misinformation about the safety and efficacy of herbs is reaching the public currently than at any previous time, including the turn-of-the-century heyday of patent medicines. The literature promoting herbs includes pamphlets, magazine articles, and books ranging in quality from cheaply printed flyers to elaborately produced studies in fine bindings with attractive illustrations. Practically all of these writings recommend large numbers of herbs for treatment based on hearsay, folklore, and tradition. The only criterion that seems to be avoided in these publications is scientific evidence. Some writings are so comprehensive and indiscriminate that they seem to recommend everything for anything. Even deadly poisonous herbs are sometimes touted as remedies, based on some outdated report or a misunderstanding of the facts. Particularly insidious is the myth that there is something almost magical about herbal drugs that prevents them, in their natural state, from harming people [8]. A study published in 2002 found that many sites located by searching for "herbs" and "cancer cure" contained illegal claims. [9] Dr. Stephen Barrett advises consumers to ignore advice from anyone who has a financial interest in the sale of dietary supplements, herbs, or homeopathic products. Researchers from Harvard have evaluated claims made on 443 Web sites located by searching for information about eight widely used herbal supplements (ginkgo biloba, St John's wort, echinacea, ginseng, garlic, saw palmetto, kava kava, and valerian root). [10]. The researchers concluded: Among 443 sites, 338 (76%) were retail sites either selling product or directly linked to a vendor. 273 (81%) of the 338 retail Web sites made 1 or more health claims, with 149 (55%) claiming to treat, prevent, diagnose, or cure specific diseases. More than half (153/292; 52%) of sites with a health claim omitted the legally required standard federal disclaimer. Nonretail sites were more likely than retail sites to include literature references, but only 52 (12%) of the 443 Web sites provided referenced information without a link to a distributor or vendor. Consumers may be misled by vendors' claims that herbal products can treat, prevent, diagnose, or cure specific diseases, despite regulations prohibiting such statements. Physicians should be aware of this widespread and easily accessible information. More effective regulation is required to put this class of therapeutics on the same evidence-based footing as other medicinal products. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given. Edited by schrafinator, : fixed quote boxes
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Buz, how many people in the world die from prescription drugs compared to the number of people who die from not having access to them?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Buz, your reaction was likely to have been your immune system ramping up. It takes more out of some people than others, but it just meant that your body was reacting properly to the vaccine and was industriously making antibodies against the pathogen. Being a bit weak for a day sure beats getting smallpox, don't you think? (By the way, there's no herbal cure or preventative for smallpox)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Why do you think that?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Please do not misunderstand. I do not suggest that people reject herbal or "natural" remedies just because they are not conventional. I am fully aware that some of them have been demonstrated to have very real and effective and safe effects. The point is, though, that the only way to learn which "natural" substances or treatments actually work for what conditions, what dose is effective and not toxic, if they have any side effects in the short or long term, etc., is to require them to be regulated and tested just like any other drug. The extremely lucrative "nutritional supplement" industry will fight any regulation tooth and nail, and it will take a bunch of people being severely injured or dying before legislation will be supported. Of course, people do die and are injured by such products, but there is no accountability to the companies who make them.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you have any information to back that up, because that's very different from the information I have. According to my sources, most naturopaths, if they have any training, are chiropractors, which means that they don't have any medical training at all.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024