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Author Topic:   Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 327 (364861)
11-20-2006 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by nwr
11-20-2006 9:25 AM


And don't forget, smallpox, another disease that used to be feared, has now been eradicated.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by nwr, posted 11-20-2006 9:25 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 327 (364997)
11-20-2006 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by nwr
11-20-2006 1:32 PM


Re: tentative devil's advocate
quote:
The low risk of exposure is a benefit you receive from the society. Don't you have an implied obligation to contribute your share of providing this benefit by vaccinating your children?
Actually, we have precedents for this. People can usually avoid military conscription if they are conscientious objectors. But in most cases they have to provide service in non-lethal (or at least non-military) occupations.
Also, in this country it is illegal to force people to belong to a union. Yet the nonmembers get the benefit of the union's work at negotiating decent contract providing decent working conditions and benefits. Also, usually it is the union which handles grievances for all the employees. So in most cases, the union members pay the regular union dues that pays for the day-to-day expenses of the union, as well as the costs for the meetings, social events, and other strictly union expenses. However, nonmembers are still obliged to pony up the portion of the expenses that go into negotiating and enforcing the contract.
So, if somehow unvaccinated kids are benefitting unfairly from a cost being borne by the vaccinated kids, I suppose their families could be made to share part of that cost.
Although, I'm not sure what increased cost people are bearing by being vaccinated in a society with unvaccinated people. The vaccinated kids are already being protected and, overall, getting a benefit from vaccination. I suppose in the US people might have to pay for their vaccinations out of their own pockets, or pay higher insurance premiums, and families of unvaccinated kids might be required to pay a little bit into this.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by nwr, posted 11-20-2006 1:32 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 11-20-2006 7:48 PM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 327 (365015)
11-20-2006 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
11-20-2006 7:48 PM


Re: tentative devil's advocate
I'm just responding to nwr's query that the unvaccinated might be receiving benefits, the cost of which are being borne by the vaccinated.
If you don't think that the vaccinations are benefiting the unvaccinated, then you should be debating nwr.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 11-20-2006 7:48 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 11-20-2006 8:05 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 327 (365032)
11-20-2006 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nwr
11-20-2006 8:17 PM


My worst case was when I was vaccinated against typhoid. I was ill for a day, and it took several more days before I felt completely right again. But we were warned that this was a possibility. And being sick for a day certainly beats actually getting typhoid fever!

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by nwr, posted 11-20-2006 8:17 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 327 (365710)
11-24-2006 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by purpledawn
11-24-2006 6:59 AM


Re: Change Resistant
quote:
I want the freedom to choose.
Hey, I want the freedom for you to choose, too.
If you want to take large doses of vitamin C because you think it prevents colds, I think you should be able to.
If you want to take St. John's Wort because it's supposed to prevent depression (or whatever it's supposed to do), then you should be able to.
If you want to smoke pot because you want to get high, then you should be able to.
If you want to take a massive dose of morphine because you're tired of this world and want to check out, then you should be able to do that, too.
The only thing I want is some sort of "truth in labelling laws" so that, whatever you might think these things do, you at least have access to information about what they actually do do (and what they don't do).

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 6:59 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 11:23 AM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 327 (365754)
11-24-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by purpledawn
11-24-2006 11:23 AM


Re: Change Resistant
quote:
Is there a supplement that you feel is not follow the guidelines?
No. I don't know much about the situation these days; it's been years since I left Eugene, Oregon, and did my grocery shopping at an organic/whole foods store with shelves and shelves full of "nutritional supplements". I was just expressing my opinion on what I feel would be Good and Just Utopia tm.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 11:23 AM purpledawn has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 327 (365989)
11-25-2006 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Buzsaw
11-25-2006 6:36 PM


Re: Side Effects.
quote:
They are most used due to the fact that the medical profession is largly money driven.
I'm not sure I completely agree with this statement. Physicians don't make any money off of their prescriptions. They write a prescription which is then filled by a pharmacist who has no connection to the physician. In fact, many times physicians prescribe over the counter medicines that can be bought at any convenience store. I have had doctors prescribe for me things like applying a heating pad or drinking more fruit juice or gargling with salt water and similar things; certainly no money in those things for the physician.
Whatever a physician prescribes, she sees not one dime of whatever money is spent on the prescription.
That's not too say that big money doesn't have something to do with the crummy state of American health care, but it isn't as simple as your post suggests.

Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 11-25-2006 6:36 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Buzsaw, posted 11-25-2006 10:20 PM Chiroptera has not replied

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