Are Catholics and Protestants that different?

Somebody has already quoted Jesus:

quote:

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Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

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Note that Jesus Himself was born of woman - i.e. He didn't put even Himself above John.There seems to be a real leveling trend in Jesus' message - nobody is above anybody else. When saints are singled out by name, it is not a matter of status.

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There is certainly an unhealthy obsession with Jesus' "virgin birth" among some evangelicals. I wasn't aware that Mary had a virgin birth.

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You miss my point: Mary was (supposedly) a virgin until her night of passion with the Holy Spirit. But she didn't have a virgin birth - i.e. she wasn't born of a virgin.This was supposed to be a lead-in to the concept of Immaculate Conception (but if I have to hold your hand every step of the way, it may not be worth my while. )

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I am trying to seque from virgin birth to immaculate conception (which is not a point of agreement, I believe), but apparently a two-by-four over the head is insufficient to get your attention. Somebody has to keep you on the straight and narrow.

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As fallacycop has pointed out, I was poking fun at a slip of your keyboard.In Message 35, you talked about "Mary and her virgin birth" - but Mary didn't have a virgin birth, Jesus did. Get it? (Nudge nudge wink wink.)Now, I'll bring it up one more time (hopefully, third time is a charm): Do you understand the difference between "virgin birth" and "immaculate conception"?

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Any baptism is a dog-and-pony show. Baptism is a ritual - it has no more to do with salvation than the colour of your tie.As a public ritual, it has meaning for the participants and for the Church as a whole. It symbolizes not just the "cleansing" of an individual but also the commitment of the Church to the spiritual well-being of the individual. As such, the age of the individual is irrelevant.When an infant is baptized, he/she is effectively "adopted" by the Church. If he/she later becomes a prodigal son/daughter, that in no way diminishes the Church's obligation to fulfill its side of the "contract".Edited by Ringo, : Typo.

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Congratulations on missing the point completely, even though you (oddly) agreed with it: When an infant is baptized, he/she is not committing to anything. Therefore, age is irrelevant. The commitment is in the other direction - from the Church to the child. (Hint: ever hear of godparents?)Later on, when the person does possess enough understanding to reciprocate the commitment, the ritual is completed by confirmation.It makes no difference how old the prospective club members are. It makes no difference if they are sprinkled or hosed down. It makes no difference what breed the dog is or what colour the pony is. It's the same show.There is a reason why a bath is private and a baptism is public - the same reason that a wedding is public and a marriage is private. You need to learn to distinguish between a commitment and the public celebration of that commitment.

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What a bizarre assertion.

quote:

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Luk 3:15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

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John was baptizing before anybody had heard of Jesus.(And where do you see anything about "adults"? How do you know that people weren't bringing their infants to be baptized too?) Exactly. Since the child is not being saved, it makes no difference whether or not the child is "ready". There is no descision being made by the child, nor is any decision being made by an adult who is baptised. Hence, the age is irrelevant.

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