|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: What is a soul? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
To suggest that people are 'random collections of cells' or 'chemical soup' is fallacious on the grounds of reductionism.
You're recycling an old rhetorical cliche. One asks 'What's a human being worth?' One then calculates the value of the water, salt, zinc and other materials contained in the human body and concludes that a human being is worth, say, only four euros. The idea is to force the listener into concluding the existence of a soul because, after all, everyone feels they are worth more than four euros. Fallacies follow as soon as the soul is proposed as a solution to this non-existant problem. First, the proposal appeals to bias, not reason. It assumes we consider ourselves of more 'worth' than four euros for reasons we can't rationally explain (the reason being mainly emotional). The soul is offered as a rationalization. Second, the proposed solution assumes that the existence of a soul as defined in the speaker's own personal belief system is the only alternative to being worth only four euros. The whole thing equivocates, of course, on the idea of 'worth'. Many kinds of worth exist but the argument takes no notice. None of this adds up. To illustrate, I offer Exhibit A: the banana slug. Note that the banana slug is more than a random collection of chemicals or cells. This is a functioning organism. It possesses integrated physical features. It possesses appetites, intentions, senses, the ability to learn and to reproduce. It feels pain and, in the face of threats to its life, will endeavor to preserve itself. A banana slug is a living being. Where are the theologians arguing for a soul for this creature? By your argument the banana slug must surely possess one. We are not looking here at some random collection of chemicals. We see an integrated, living creature that possesses this undeniable quality of slugness. In assigning it the name 'slug' we recognize that it amounts to more than the sum of its chemical parts. It is a totality, a unity. On the grounds you have suggested there is no reason to deny this creature its soul. So what do you say? Does it have one? __ Edited by Archer Opterix, : ongoing quest for literary perfection. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
n-j: Am I reducing the worth of a human being or are they? See, we have one group that claims that humans are no different, than say, your banana slug. Each has equal value. I'm not sure this is a fair statement of anyone's position. Who says they have 'equal value'? And what is that person's measure of value? Can you offer some quotes here? It is certainly not a statement of science. The question of 'value' is philosophical, not scientific. You seem to be discussing (what you take to be) the implications of science here rather than actual methods or findings.
If we have equal value, then what makes the slug, a slug? Aren't we all made of matter? Or is there something transcendental at work in the lives of either us, the slug, or both? Leaving aside any assertions about value, I'd say living things consist of both matter and energy. Everyone knows this. That's one reason why talking about living things as if they only consisted of matter is to be reductionist. I'd also say many living things are complex. They consist of multiple living units (cells) organized and specialized in ways that result in a larger living unit (organism). Some complex living units are so organized (brain cells, nervous system) as to possess consciousness and decision-making intelligence. How transcendent is that? I don't know. Transcendence appears to be relative. A self-sustaining, self-replicating combination of matter and energy will appear transcendent compared to inert matter that lacks this kind of energy. A large complex creature with a brain enabling self-awareness and conscious choices will appear transcendent compared to single-celled creatures lacking such potential. There's plenty of transendence in this picture. But I don't see how any of it proves what you want it to prove. My impression is that the ancients used the word soul to describe the energy aspects of living things where they used the word body to describe the material aspects. That's pretty much how the usage goes, isn't it? ___ Edited by Archer Opterix, : spelling. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
An organism is nothing more than a complicated compound object. Spoken like a true godless materialist. But your definition overlooks something crucial. Life itself. Most people would say the quality of being alive has something to do with defining an object as an organism. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
I see that your definition of 'soul', to the extent that you have offered one, makes it synonymous with 'life.'
Organisms are just complex compound clumps of matter, you say. What separates them from other clumps of matter is that they happen to be animated. You call this animating energy 'soul.' 'Soul' is the ingredient that makes material entities metabolize and reproduce and have experiences. It's the thing at work in your body that makes you a living, functioning personality rather than a lump of material stretched on a table in a med school. To be a soul is to have life. All very well. It follows from this that 'soul', as you define it, is a feature of all living creatures. You are a soul, the banana slug is a soul, the redwood tree the slug lives on is a soul. To be an organism is to be a soul. Is this your view? ___ Edited by Archer Opterix, : ongoing quest for literary perfection. Edited by Archer Opterix, : ever ongoing. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo repair. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Thanks for mentioning this. If you're charting the placement of a group you really do have to take into account the range of beliefs and certainty allowed individual members. The Anglican/Episcopalian and Unitarian groups would appear as large ovals indeed while Jehovah's Witness and foot-washing Baptist groups would appear as much more focused points.
___ (title supplied by Emily Dickinson) Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
GIAM: The soul is born when the Holy Spirit enters the body of the fetus at the exact moment of conception. At this time God considers this entity a human in progress. As it is. This connection with God through the Holy Spirit never ends. I may have used the wrong word in fetus but I am not sere if they give a name for such a small number of cells. Regardless God is there. This soul is the recording machine of all we are and upon death caries our essence to God. A beautiful idea. My congratulations on working this out so clearly to your satisfaction. Your suspicions are correct about the inappropriate wording, though. Here is the statement as it appears with correct terms employed.
Just as beautiful. Just as valid. And better biology. ___ Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Marduk and Ishtar are Assyro-Babylonion deities.
Maruk's most famous feat was battling Tiamat, a multi-headed sea dragon, at the beginning of the world. He scattered the beast's remains in celebration of his victory over the forces of chaos. The story is echoed in Psalm 74 with YHWH and Leviathan standing in for their Mesopotamian counterparts. NRSV:
___ Edited by Archer Opterix, : detail. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024